AI Questions and Frustrations

GaryHensley

So I exclusively race rFactor (and other racing sims) offline, for my own pleasure and practice. I have read and tweaked on all the AI settings in the files to try and get a good, competitive performance out of it. Currently I'm running the SRF mod, mostly racing at Laguna Seca as my bench mark (great mod and one of my favorite, and local, tracks). But I have some questions, and more frustrations, with this AI. And these problems are not exclusive to rFactor, but notice it on most the Simbin engines (which I think this is running on?). Anyway my frustrations are

1. The AI slows down over the course of a race. If you look at the times of the front runners, they drop 5 seconds off their time in 10 laps. P1 of my last race went from a 1:48 to a 1:54 in 10 laps. (Unrealistic)

2. The AI speeds up when it gets behind you. The cars I pass start driving faster times than the lead cars. The cars directly behind me at the end of my last race went from 1:53's to 1:49-50 after I passed them. (Unrealistic)

3. The cars directly in front of you become the worst drivers you ever saw, while the cars behind you are suddenly world class racers. I stumble over the cars that are supposed to be running faster times in front of me, while the cars, that were horrible drivers that I just passed, are pushing me into every corner and out accelerating me. If you don't keep passing the SLOW cars in front of you, then you will get run over by the FAST MOB of cars you just passed a lap or two ago. (Unrealistic)

4. The difference between Qualifying and Race times is way too much. I can't find anything to tighten them up.

5. The qualifying spread between the fastest AI and the slowest is .2 seconds. (Unrealistic) I'm either qualifying 1st or last. So I just turn Q off and run random grids.

I can deal with 4 & 5 by running random grids, but that takes a lot of fun out of it. But the cars in front of you going slower than the cars behind really ruin a great sim. Anything that anyone can do to help me on this is greatly appreciated. But don't tell me "race online". I do that already on iRacing. The "AI" on it is not very good either. ;)

But the simulator is a hoot! I love the mods on this one, and the multiplicity of cars. Most of the tracks are great as well!

Thanks,
Gary
 
i know u said offline, but multiplayer is where this game shine's, that said ive had some close racing with RF2's AI
 
I've only stumbled upon AI problems on third party tracks with bad AIW.

Once I turned the AI limiter off I have only had great races with extremely fast, fair and fun AI.

Sendt fra min LG-E400 med Tapatalk2
 
hexagramme said:
I've only stumbled upon AI problems on third party tracks with bad AIW.

Once I turned the AI limiter off I have only had great races with extremely fast, fair and fun AI.

Sendt fra min LG-E400 med Tapatalk2
Click to expand...

I have AI limiter off. It's so annoying because it's not small amounts. I see 5 seconds swings in times on the same cars. The cars behind you will go as fast as you do, while the ones in front of you slow you down to the point of running into them. Once a car passes you, they begin slowing down. Once you pass a car, regardless of how "slow" they were, they immediately are faster. The cars behind dive into the corners to pass you (and usually slam into you). The cars in front of you can barely keep it on the track without wrecking. I have coasted along in 2nd place with a 7 second gap to first, only to be sitting on his bumper with the entire field behind me in 2 laps. It's crazy! I guess they try to keep it "competitive", but what is the fun in racing the car behind you while the cars you should be racing in front of you are going "lapped car" speeds.

I mostly run the SRF and Formula Vee (both) mods because those are the kind of cars I like watching in real life, and are fun and competitive series. None of those three mods have talent files. Do you think creating competitive talent files improve the afore mentioned issue?

And, I know online is fun. I'm just taking a break and just trying to have fun. Not sure what other online's are like, but I'm tired of all the wrecking in iRacing. You can't race side by side without the possibility of your car being destroyed. Offline you can have some very realistic racing (sim wise), but overly-unrealistic AI takes the fun out of it.
 
spizone said:
i know u said offline, but multiplayer is where this game shine's, that said ive had some close racing with RF2's AI
Click to expand...

I like being able to jump into a race at any track I want at any time with any car and any number of competitors....(can you say 'control freak'?) Also, I don't have the time to invest to be/stay competitive online right now. So I like being able to set the level competition for where I am for a good race.

I've had great battles with AI in rF1, GPL, Race07, NR2003. I haven't done much with rF2, but I have it. The problem I have with rF1 and Race07 is that the front runners slow down, until you pass them... GPL and NR2003 don't do that. Very competitive the whole time. But the car and track options in rF1 and Race07 are so much better.
 
Sounds like the AI in mod AND track are not optimal.
Talent files do indeed increase the experience in AI races.
I for myself made a F1 mod years ago, in which the cars themselfes had different performances.
It went hand by hand with carefully build talent files and a good AIW-line on the track.
I experienced no such issues you are describing.
Only thing is the inconsistant laptimes that AI does. But I had limiter at 0.5 and AImistakes at 0.12
and the talents where wide spreaded so that things should be the reason for this.

Have you ever messed around with these settings in .PLR:?

QUICK Speed Compensation="0" // 0 (none) - 10 (max)
MULTI Speed Compensation="0"
Speed Comp Dist="500.00000" // <= 2.0: fraction of track length, > 2.0: actual distance in meters for max speed comp

When I understand this correctly this should do a "rubber band-effect" to the AI, but never tried it.

Greets
Pete

Edit: How strong is this problem on other tracks?
Esit2: differences between Quali and race-times can not be set in rF1.
 
peterchen said:
Sounds like the AI in mod AND track are not optimal.
Talent files do indeed increase the experience in AI races.
I for myself made a F1 mod years ago, in which the cars themselfes had different performances.
It went hand by hand with carefully build talent files and a good AIW-line on the track.
I experienced no such issues you are describing.
Only thing is the inconsistant laptimes that AI does. But I had limiter at 0.5 and AImistakes at 0.12
and the talents where wide spreaded so that things should be the reason for this.

Have you ever messed around with these settings in .PLR:?

QUICK Speed Compensation="0" // 0 (none) - 10 (max)
MULTI Speed Compensation="0"
Speed Comp Dist="500.00000" // <= 2.0: fraction of track length, > 2.0: actual distance in meters for max speed comp

When I understand this correctly this should do a "rubber band-effect" to the AI, but never tried it.

Greets
Pete

Edit: How strong is this problem on other tracks?
Esit2: differences between Quali and race-times can not be set in rF1.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding Pete. I haven't tried those settings, so I'll try them out and see.

I've been running the SRF on Laguna Seca (ALS) for the last few days trying to get good results. I've been running 105 difficulty with aggressiveness anywhere from 10 to 90. Lower seems better racing. High they battle too much at times when they should line up and run. I was running 100-105 difficulty because of their qualifying performance. Since I turned it off I've increased it up to 115 and that seems to help. First lap is crazy (10 lap races), but after they they settle in a little more. I may try 120 since I can still win too easily starting in 9th or so, but I have had some decent battles. The front runners still fall off to easily, and everything behind me bunches up into a pack.

I've also changed the braking/grip settings in the mod file (the ones in the player file that you can override). Tried to tweak them to brake realistic at a realistic point, yet be fast enough in the turn without having magic grip. I think I'm running (1.0,0.97,0.97). I think the first number controls their braking point, the second the braking pressure, and the third their corner grip.

I re-ran the AI learning which seemed to help (must have had a bad setting). I also ran it for Sears Point, Thunderhill, Willow, and Arizona tracks. I ran a few races on them at 105 and killed the competition by over 30 seconds. Raising it to 115 and AI learning made for a good race at Sears, although they take an unrealistic line the the second hill right-hander by cutting the corner completely and going through the dirt. First couple of laps were wicked! Which brings up another point.

How do you keep the AI from banging doors and forcing you off the road when you are in the line they want to take? I can be running right up against the track edge and an AI car will force me off the track. And their cars are stronger than mine! I've had to restart too many times because they will wreck me the first lap by running through me from behind or forcing me off track. It's like they don't know I'm there. They don't seem to do that to each other. NR2003 has a "buffer" setting (for lack of a better description) which controls how close the AI cars will get to you and each other. Is there any such thing in rFactor.

Overall, I'm really loving this old program. Why is the older ones still seem to be the best? :D I guess because they are established...or is it because they've quit changing them (usually for the worse) and letting us just enjoy them. Not to mention all the great mods and tracks. Anyway...it's still got a long life for me!

Thanks again all.
 
The unawareness of the AI to YOUR position is one of the big problems of Rfactor1 AI.
Possible that this gets better with talent-files (in talent file there are settings which COULD have influence on that).
When the AI´s drive weird lines it´s a problem with the track-AIW-file.
When you have to crank up difficulty so much, there´s a problem with the modside AI settings.

I have much time and decided right now to actively help you (if you wish).
PM me and I can adjust it (or we together)!
I´ve modified a lot AIW-lines for better times....

Greets
Pete
 
The single biggest reason I refuse to race AI in this game, and indeed other gMotor games, is their refusal to yield to blue flags.

I did a full 1994 race on rFactor 1 at Adelaide, with the race tightly poised with me in 3rd position, with Mansell and Schumacher just ahead of me. Then came lap 20, and I went from 3rd to 1st, with the other leaders just plainly refusing to pass the first guy being lapped. Carried on like that for 5 laps, looking to see if they can catch up, but nothing, they never even passed the first backmarker up until that point! After that, never raced AI in rFactor again.

Tried a similar thing with Formula ISI the other day in rFactor 2, since the AI is so much better now. Exact same scenario. Really, is it that impossible just to get the leaders past backmarkers quick enough? Are there no lines of code in the world that could fix this annyoing issue?

If only this can be fixed, it'll help us immensely in preparing for races offline.
 
I've only seen this in rFactor. What were you running the aggressiveness setting at? I had mine low and found the same problem, nobody passing. Raising it makes them pass/defend more.

I worked on this last night, adjusting the settings recommended by Pete. I was able to lower my difficulty setting back to a 105 (100 is still too slow). I also raised by aggressiveness to 50%. May try higher.

Here is what I changed in the PLR file:
QUICK Speed Compensation="10" // 0 (none) - 10 (max) [not sure what this does, but at 10 they don't slow down]
MULTI Speed Compensation="0" [I'm not using...]
Speed Comp Dist="2.10000" // <= 2.0: fraction of track length, > 2.0: actual distance in meters for max speed comp [this has something to do with "when" they slow down..how close. I tried 0 but the program keeps making it 0.1 when I do. So at 2.1 it should be "slowing" when you are 2.1 meters from you. Anyway, the rarely slow down.]

These settings have really made for more competitive offline racing. Now what I run into is qualifying. Because I have qualifying turned off (setting it either to random or some position), the AI cars do not qualify either. That means the fast and slow cars are mixed together, with slow cars sometimes up front holding up the rest of the field. Raising the aggressiveness makes them pass more, but not much. But the problem I run into with qualifying, as I stated, is that the spread is only about .2 seconds front to back (with 15 AI cars). So I'm either 1st or last. I tried talent files but that didn't seem to change qualifying results. I can't seem to change the grid using the admin commands, otherwise I would just not qualify and stick myself in some position. I'm trying to create a "realistic" set of races for myself. I'm getting really close, but not there yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top