FFB without under-oversterring info

  • Thread starter olandese volante
  • Start date

olandese volante

I have a huge problem...95% of mods in rfactor does not give me any oversteer or understeer effect on force feedback...

People with a driving force gt (130€ with pedals!!) are happy with its ffb effects and I can't get any feedback while driving....If the car is understeering in a turn, the ffb strenght doesn't change, and with the oversteer i have the same issue... I tried to change almost every parameter in controller.ini but nothing change (indeed nothing change in a better way).

Does anyone had the same problem? Does anyone have a solution? it's incredible...

I tried driver 142, 144 and older ones... and firmware 681, 750b...same behavior...

Only 1 mod in my experience gave me some under-oversteering feedback, a f1 mod made by a real f3 driver that worked to make it as realistic as he can. I got some feedback, not that much I have to say, but at least I got something in my hands...

no one experienced the same issue?
It's like...it's like there's some force that override tire grip loss...and I get the same force with 100% grip or during oversteering...I tried leo's, realfeel plugin and nothing changed..with the f1 mod I was talking above, for example, real feel plugin and leo's override tire grip effects on ffb, resulting in the same issue, and I need to remove those plugins to feel a decent ffb...
In my current mod, f1 1990, I tried the plugins and removed them, no change in tire grip feelings...
Changing some values in the controller.ini something happens:
- FFB Gain="0.98621" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
I get a strong and nice ffb with higher values, decreasing it I lost almost all the forces (not at all, but the remaining forces are so subtle I cannot feel them)
- FFB steer force exponent="0.80000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
Increasing it I lost all feedbacks..
- FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.80000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
Don't know what to do with them...and i frankly doubt they change something helpful
- FFB steer force grip function="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 1.0) - lower values will make steering force decrease LATER as front tire grip is lost - try 0.3
FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6 (previously hardcoded to 0.4). How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
FFB steer front grip fract="0.00000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0 (previous hardcoded value was 0.0), additional effect of front grip loss on steering force
The gold lines...I usually use the function at 1.0, I need the force to decrease instantly when i lose grip...second and third values are fantastic...I can't feel the mass transfer through ffb, neither the rear grip...I MUST set them all to the tire grip and all to the front grip...at least this is what i've done with the f1 mod which gave me some tire info...

What could I do?
 
You didn't say, what steering wheel you have.

I'd try RealFFB (the original one, v0.92) with its original controller.ini content. With it, you should get very good feeling for oversteer (but probably not for understeer...). Still though, that's should be a good starting point.
 
Try using RealFeel with the default FFB completely disabled. The only way to totally disable the default FFB is with this setting:
FFB steer force output max="0.00000"

The next step is to find good settings for RealFeel. For this would will need to monitor the Steering Arm Force with one of the MoTeC plugins. For MoTeC I would sugest this plugin because it works with the latest version of MoTeC i2Pro:
https://community.racesimcentral.net/showthread.php/2917-rFactor-Motec-Plugin?highlight=motec

And download MoTeC i2Pro directly from MoTeC here:
http://www.motec.com/filedownload.php/mi2_pro_1.20.0008.exe?docid=2409

For info on how to use MoTeC to find the perfect settings for RealFeel, refer to my post here:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1422134&highlight=motec#post1422134

Keep in mind that not all mods work well with RealFeel. Personally if a mod doesn't work well with RealFeel then it isn't worth racing. Luckily most mods these days do work well with RF.
 
Last edited:
do you ever play with f1 1990 mod? anyway thanks i am giving it a try
 
I've done what you said...

This is a complete lap in mexico 1990:
View attachment 4947

I got a massive oversteer in turn 3 with the car snapping and stopping to 0 km/h.
This is the zoomed part of the graph in the right instant when the car loses its grip (max Km/h before decreasing hilighted, look at the drop in the right tire load):
View attachment 4948

And this is right after where you can see the speed is decreasing on the right box (ground speed):
View attachment 4949


I did not notice any difference in the ffb strenght...NOTHING!

Only realfeel, no leo's installed:
[#15 Mauricio Gugelmin]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-4000.000000
SteeringDamper=39800.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=90.000000
FrontGripEffect=0.000000
SmoothingLevel=1
Kf=4.000000
Ks=7.000000
A=3.500000
Kr=10.000000
 
Try these settings:
[#15 Mauricio Gugelmin]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-4000.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
FrontGripEffect=0.000000
SmoothingLevel=0
Kf=4.000000
Ks=7.000000
A=3.500000
Kr=10.000000

RealFeel isn't going to create a heavy wheel. The dynamic range of these FFB wheels we have can't create the dynamic range of a real car so we have to compromise a little. If you tune RealFeel to have a heavy wheel it will mask all the subtle forces. Think of it like over amping a wave file to the point it starts clipping and sounding like crap. Same goes for RealFeel. Look at that graph you posted and think about all the clipping you would have if you lowered MaxForceAtSteeringRack to something like 2000. Sure the wheel would be more heavy but it would be running 100% on bumps that should be around 75%. Maybe one day we will get some direct drive stuff like Niels has. Then maybe we can get stronger forces like real life without missing the stuff in between.
 
How should I tune the FFB strenght of the wheel itself? I have a LCD panel where I can increse or decrease the ffb strenght, I am playing with it at 50 (0-100). Does this affect what you're saying too?

Anyway I tried 100 and 0 to smoothing but nothing changed, apart some crazy vibration on straight at high speed..
 
I am not sure about our wheel. I would say set your wheel to 100. On the Logi wheels you can set it above 100 which just causes clipping. I assume on your wheel that 0 = 0% and 100 = 100% but it is posible that 0 = 0 and 100 = 200%. Maybe someone with your wheel can chime in about that. But the strength you set in the drivers of your wheel will be a global setting and shouldn't effect how you config rFactor. Did you also change the damper in RealFeel?
 
Uhm...is there anyone with my wheel (or a fanatec one) who can tell me which game should I try to verify my FFB? To check if it's rfactor-fanatec problem or my own wheel failure?
 
FrontGripEffect=1

try that if you are using Realfeel, if the understeer doesn't make the wheel go light, something is wrong..
 
ok, something's wrong... frontgrip 1 and no understeer at all... frontgrip 2 and crazy movement at mid turn: in a right turn, when I steer to the right the ffb pull all along to the right side (instead of still pull to the left)...

Furthermore, I can change these settings

MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-4000.000000 (realfeel.ini)

FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" (controller.ini)

into these settings

MaxForceAtSteeringRack=4000.000000 (realfeel.ini)

FFB steer force input max="11500.00000" (controller.ini)

without finding any difference, apart from crazy wheel movement at 0mph ONLY with the latter...

Anyway, frontgripeffect isn't affecting the understeer...
 
Reversing both of those numbers at the same time will yield the same results. To feel any difference you need to change just one of them.
 
changing only one of them will make the ffb crazy like logitech drivers setting the ffb to a positive value or viceversa...those are the right values for my wheel
 
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