More than 1 assigned car per pitspot?

Timpreza

It's a very common problem in our league that there are 2 or even 3 cars assigned for some pitspots. Is there an easy way to check and fix this before people have to stack up in the race?

It seems to be online only, when I check pitspots with the AIW editor, all spots look ok, and in most cases there are plenty more than we have drivers. It happens at a lot of quality tracks and with most mods.
 
Here's how it works:
1. In AIW, you define how many cars are assigned for each pitspot.
2. In rFm you define, how many cars can be assigned for each pitspot and assign names for them.
3. In Veh, you provide pitspot names for particular cars.

Tell me what you need and I will tell you if that's possible and how to do that (it may require doing corrections to tracks and mods).
 
Great! Well, for example, our last race was Enduracers GT1 at Topeka Heartland Park.

In warmup we test our pitspots, and this was the resulting chaos. :)
We had some doubles before, but this was the worst yet.

pitspots.jpg


Here are the 3 files you mention. Could you please have a look, and tell me what might cause the trouble, so I learn fix it for myself in coming events:

http://users.telenet.be/tim.vanhee/Topeka_HP_F.AIW
http://users.telenet.be/tim.vanhee/EnduranceSeries.rfm
http://users.telenet.be/tim.vanhee/AstonMartin_060009.veh
 
You still didn't tell me, what you expecting to have :)

Typical setup is, you have 2 cars assigned to 1 pitstop. Let's assume, that's what you want ;-)


Let's go through each file.
1. AIW
We are interested in the whole [PITS] section.
For each TeamIndex you have one pitspot and up to 3 garage positions, but actually only first 2 are logically used (the third one have coordinates 0,0,0).
That will work in general but I advice to just delete that third garage definition (GarPos=(2,....) and GarOri=(2,...) for all TeamIndex groups), just in case and put
garagespots=2
at the begining of the file, under [Features] section. You know, just in case (there is no official documentation from ISI about what should be and what not, so it's all about having hope, that there is hope it will be working as should ;-) ).

2. rFm
Have a look at the last section of the file, under PitGroupOrder.
There are 20 pitgroups defined. 2 cars for each and each pitgroup have specific defined name (which is VERY important!). That means, rFactor will take care for assigning up to 40 cars to pits, as long as you follow one more rule, covered in pt. 4.
If more than 40 cars are present and a track has also more than 20 pitspots (40 garages assigned, 2 per pitstop like we have at Topeka) then rF will follow its own rules of assigning cars from 41 to last.

3. Veh
In each file there is PitGroup parameter. If it's empty, rF will put car with that veh file to whatever place it thinks is good (typically, into next empty garage spot, even if that will assign that car to another one, already occupying pitstop, so together they will form a 2 car team).
If it's not empty, rF will search rFm for that name and assign that car to THAT SPECIFIED pitspot.
Now, have a look once again at PitGroupOrder in rFm file, especially at first 9 groups. What names do they have? Group1, Group2, Group3 and so on... You see? Group3, NOT Group03!
On the other hand, what do you see in veh file under PitGroup parameter? Group03 :)
That's why that is not working. You have mismatch between names used in Veh and in rFm. They are not matching each other up to and including Group9. That's the reason for the whole mess. Blame mod creators, not ISI :)

4. If you make neccesary corrections, it should be OK but I strongly advice, to organize your drivers into 2 driver teams. If there will be 3 or more drivers choosing the same pitgroup (for example, Group1), rFactor might keep them all within 2 garages assigned to that particular pitspot or might put them to garages assigned to other pitspots, which will confuse other drivers - a chance to mess up someone's race by that (you want to pit and you see there's already someone pitting at your spot and it's not even a guy from your team!). That might happen :)

I hope my description helped you with your issues. If you still have some questions, feel free to ask :)
 
Now, have a look once again at PitGroupOrder in rFm file, especially at first 9 groups. What names do they have? Group1, Group2, Group3 and so on... You see? Group3, NOT Group03!
On the other hand, what do you see in veh file under PitGroup parameter? Group03
That's why that is not working. You have mismatch between names used in Veh and in rFm.

Ah, that should be it. Thanks a lot.
What I wanted was simply that we have just 1 car assigned per spitspot, so we don't have 2 guys who need to pit at one pitspot.
Simply adding some 0's to the pitgroups in the rfm might fix this.
 
Last edited:
Timpreza, 1 car per pitspot means one garage per pitspot, so you can only utilize half of available garages on the track (or you can modify AIW, create 2 times more pitspots and reasign garages to have one garage per one pitspot).
If that's OK, then change rFm to have PitGroup=1 (so, one car per pitgroup).
 
Thanks a lot for that info !
One more question about pitgroups : some our .veh files have a pitgroup configured, others not (for public cars), do you know if there will be any concurrence in pit assignment by rfactor?
For example, a track with 20 pitgroups, in my rfm I configured only 10 pitgroups name, so the last 10 pitgroups will always be for non assigned pit group cars (no pitgroup in veh) ? no assigned pit group cars will be in configured pitgroups (in rfm) ?
 
So that means that if I dont care about the pit position I can leave the "PitGroup" entry in the .veh empty for every vehicle?

Example: PitGroup=""
 
If you still have some questions, feel free to ask :)
I have a question. Well, imagine we have 70 cars in our league mod. I assume that only about half of them belong to 2-car teams, if not less. Thus it is not possible to give every team its own dedicated and unique pit group without running into numbers that no track would support.
The reality is that no more than 40 cars will be present at any given race, most likely around 30. The problem is that nobody knows exactly WHICH <40 of those 70 cars in the mod will turn up for the event. How do I make sure that each car has its own pit spot? It's not important if the pit positions are assigned completely randomly, as long as cars don't have to share them.

PS: in the past I tried using VEH setting PitGroup="" for ALL the cars. That didn't help, some cars shared pit spots even though there were more available spots than cars.
 
To my knowledge, rFactor provides no solution for that problem.In theory, leaving PitGroup parameter empty should work...but it doesn't (at least not as good as we want) :)
So the only thing you can do (we do something like that in our league races at SRPL) is to create (a few hours before the race) a list of drivers that will be participating in the event and based on that, make another list where you assign pitspots for each driver/team. And of course mod itself must have defined PitGroup values in the veh and rFm files.
 
So I've decided to update the mod each time based on the entry list so that each car has its own fixed pit and garage spot.

The plan was:
1. to edit AIW to allow many 1-car/1-pit garages (or TeamIndex-es)
so took Monza and made 52 of them (luckily the garage doors had numbers on them so it was easy to see if it works or not)
So...
Code:
TeamIndex=0
PitPos=(287.673,-5.255,-248.535)
PitOri=(0.000,1.566,0.002)
GarPos=(0,289.758,-5.261,-244.666)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.003)
GarPos=(1,293.031,-5.271,-244.653)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
TeamIndex=1
PitPos=(295.192,-5.277,-248.466)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.566,0.002)
GarPos=(0,297.291,-5.285,-244.651)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.002)
GarPos=(1,300.675,-5.295,-244.719)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
...becomes...
Code:
TeamIndex=0
PitPos=(285.179,-5.254,-249.589)
PitOri=(-0.006,1.278,0.005)
GarPos=(0,289.758,-5.261,-244.666)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.003)
TeamIndex=1
PitPos=(290.481,-5.263,-249.298)
PitOri=(-0.000,1.578,-0.007)
GarPos=(1,293.031,-5.271,-244.653)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
TeamIndex=2
PitPos=(294.113,-5.273,-249.603)
PitOri=(-0.006,1.330,-0.004)
GarPos=(0,297.291,-5.285,-244.651)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.002)
TeamIndex=3
PitPos=(298.291,-5.282,-249.352)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.579,-0.007)
GarPos=(1,300.675,-5.295,-244.719)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
TeamIndex=4
PitPos=(302.022,-5.303,-249.751)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.373,-0.007)
GarPos=(0,304.866,-5.308,-244.747)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.002)
I used TeamIndex=0 spot1 as TeamIndex=0, TeamIndex=0 spot2 as TeamIndex=1 etc... Then I copy-pasted the 52 (rather tight) pit-spots that I created using AIW Editor in a different copy of the file (my friend warned me that AIW Editor may mess up other things while saving). So the result looks like this:
Code:
[Features]
pitlanes=1
startinggrid=104
pitspots=52
garagespots=1
auxspots=8
................
.........blablabla grid etc
......
[PITS]
TeamIndex=0
PitPos=(285.179,-5.254,-249.589)
PitOri=(-0.006,1.278,0.005)
GarPos=(0,289.758,-5.261,-244.666)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.003)
TeamIndex=1
PitPos=(290.481,-5.263,-249.298)
PitOri=(-0.000,1.578,-0.007)
GarPos=(1,293.031,-5.271,-244.653)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
TeamIndex=2
PitPos=(294.113,-5.273,-249.603)
PitOri=(-0.006,1.330,-0.004)
GarPos=(0,297.291,-5.285,-244.651)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.002)
TeamIndex=3
PitPos=(298.291,-5.282,-249.352)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.579,-0.007)
GarPos=(1,300.675,-5.295,-244.719)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.004)
TeamIndex=4
PitPos=(302.022,-5.303,-249.751)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.373,-0.007)
GarPos=(0,304.866,-5.308,-244.747)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.002)
TeamIndex=5
PitPos=(470.326,-5.830,-248.406)
PitOri=(-0.003,1.279,-0.006)
GarPos=(1,308.212,-5.319,-244.711)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.020,-0.003)
TeamIndex=6
PitPos=(309.740,-5.312,-248.911)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.430,0.003)
GarPos=(0,312.474,-5.332,-244.653)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.020,-0.003)
TeamIndex=7
PitPos=(313.369,-5.335,-249.689)
PitOri=(-0.003,1.500,-0.006)
GarPos=(1,315.837,-5.343,-244.727)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.013,-0.002)
TeamIndex=8
PitPos=(317.223,-5.334,-249.246)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.358,-0.002)
GarPos=(0,320.094,-5.356,-244.417)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.014,-0.004)
TeamIndex=9
PitPos=(321.171,-5.346,-249.397)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.542,-0.006)
GarPos=(1,323.418,-5.367,-244.465)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.014,-0.002)
TeamIndex=10
PitPos=(324.942,-5.359,-248.839)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.424,0.004)
GarPos=(0,327.684,-5.380,-244.555)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.015,-0.004)
TeamIndex=11
PitPos=(328.768,-5.371,-249.087)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.515,-0.005)
GarPos=(1,331.022,-5.390,-244.581)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.015,-0.003)
TeamIndex=12
PitPos=(332.115,-5.381,-249.026)
PitOri=(-0.004,1.369,-0.002)
GarPos=(0,335.591,-5.405,-244.523)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.016,-0.003)
TeamIndex=13
PitPos=(336.376,-5.394,-249.098)
PitOri=(-0.002,1.424,-0.003)
GarPos=(1,338.958,-5.415,-244.518)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.016,-0.004)
TeamIndex=14
PitPos=(340.242,-5.407,-248.989)
PitOri=(-0.005,1.403,-0.000)
GarPos=(0,343.234,-5.429,-244.474)
GarOri=(0,-0.004,0.016,-0.002)
TeamIndex=15
PitPos=(344.008,-5.418,-249.136)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.438,-0.005)
GarPos=(1,346.542,-5.439,-244.528)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.016,-0.004)

.......etc, upto TeamIndex=51

2. to edit rfm so it looks like
Code:
PitGroupOrder
{
  // format is: PitGroup = <# of vehicles sharing pit>, <groupname>
  PitGroup = 1, Group1
  PitGroup = 1, Group2
  PitGroup = 1, Group3
  PitGroup = 1, Group4
  PitGroup = 1, Group5
  PitGroup = 1, Group6
  PitGroup = 1, Group7
  PitGroup = 1, Group8
  PitGroup = 1, Group9
  PitGroup = 1, Group10
  PitGroup = 1, Group11
etc........
up to Group60
3. Then I took all the Saleens in the mod (9 of them) and assigned various PitGroups.

car # pitgroup (and desired garage) - what really happens
#25 Group1 - seems to be positioned randomly each time I load the track
#26 Group2 - seems to be positioned randomly each time I load the track
#14 Group14 - ends up in 11th garage
#18 Group15 - ends up in 15th (YAY!)
#54 Group4 - ends up in 5th garage
#55 Group5 - ends up in 7th garage
#112 Group12 - ends up in 3rd garage
#66 Group33 - ends up in 33rd garage (YAY!)
#50 Group50 - seems to be positioned randomly each time I load the track

Is there any hope this will ever work? :confused:
 
If everything is set correctly, then it just must work. This is 3rd year we use that kind of solution in our leagues and there are no problems with that (if something went wrong in the past, it was because wrong veh, rFm or AIW values).

In your case:
1. AIW entries are wrong - your odd TeamIndex IDs have wrong GarPos/GarOri index. Should be "0" and you have "1". That might have some impact (or not...who knows? ;-) ) on your present issues.
2. Check if veh files contain PitGroup names EXACTLY like you put into rFm. I mean, if in rFm you use "Group4" then in veh file you also have to have "Group4" (NOT "Group04"). Otherwise it won't work as should.

Right now nothing more comes to my head, about why it's not working so check these 2 things and let me know.
 
1. You mean these?
TeamIndex=15
PitPos=(344.008,-5.418,-249.136)
PitOri=(-0.001,1.438,-0.005)
GarPos=(1,346.542,-5.439,-244.528)
GarOri=(1,-0.004,0.016,-0.004)
I used all the original garage spots from ISI's AIW file and just manually assigned them to different TeamIndex-es and added custom pit spots.

Maybe I should try and create new garages in AIW from scratch. Also, after I made the changes the doors of most garages didn't 'lift' even though there were cars in them.

Are there any alternatives to ISI's AIW Editor? I'd like something where I could see all the pit and garage spots visually highlighted at once. Don't really care if it's ingame or not.

2. I checked that many times. The original ES mod had that bug (Group0*), but I fixed that earlier.
 
Last edited:
Did you verify the .gdb file of the track ? you can have pitgroup entries as .rfm file, in that case, it is the .gdb file entries which are used by rfactor.
 
I wonder if putting pitgroup to "default" for each public cars can work. The idea is to give Group1, Group2, Group3,... for private cars of the team and to give default for the public cars (no team for that cars).

The rfm file should be:

PitGroupOrder
{
// format is: PitGroup = <# of vehicles sharing pit>, <groupname>
PitGroup = 2, Group1
PitGroup = 2, Group2
PitGroup = 2, Group3
PitGroup = 2, Group4
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
}

Is it different from using empty string? Can a "default" car be in GroupX pit?
 
In theory, it should give exactly the same results like when using veh PitGroup string empty... but I'm not 100% as I have never done any tests with that configuration.



1. You mean these?

I used all the original garage spots from ISI's AIW file and just manually assigned them to different TeamIndex-es and added custom pit spots.

Maybe I should try and create new garages in AIW from scratch. Also, after I made the changes the doors of most garages didn't 'lift' even though there were cars in them.

Are there any alternatives to ISI's AIW Editor? I'd like something where I could see all the pit and garage spots visually highlighted at once. Don't really care if it's ingame or not.
You have to only change those "1" to "0". They are like that in the original track, because there are 2 garages assigned to one pitspot, so first garage has ID "0" and second has "1". In your case, you have only one garage per pitspot, so all garages should (must?) have ID "0".
 
I wonder if putting pitgroup to "default" for each public cars can work. The idea is to give Group1, Group2, Group3,... for private cars of the team and to give default for the public cars (no team for that cars).

The rfm file should be:

PitGroupOrder
{
// format is: PitGroup = <# of vehicles sharing pit>, <groupname>
PitGroup = 2, Group1
PitGroup = 2, Group2
PitGroup = 2, Group3
PitGroup = 2, Group4
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
PitGroup = 2, default
}

Is it different from using empty string? Can a "default" car be in GroupX pit?



Same question here. I hope somebody can answer this question...
 
Did you verify the .gdb file of the track ? you can have pitgroup entries as .rfm file, in that case, it is the .gdb file entries which are used by rfactor.
I can't see anything relevant in gdb:
Code:
Brianza_ItalianGP
{
  Filter Properties = SmallOval 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *
  Attrition = 30
  TrackName = Brianza Grand Prix
  EventName = Italian Grand Prix
  GrandPrixName = Italian Grand Prix //this must be the same as event name in order to sort circuit info correctly.
  VenueName = Autodromo Nazionale della Brianza
  Location = Milano, Italy
  Length = 5.793 km / 3.600 Miles
  TrackType = Permanent Road Course
  Track Record = , 81.046
  HeadlightsRequired = true  // whether headlights are required at night
  TerrainDataFile = ..\Brianza.tdf         // terrain file override

  GarageDepth = 4.0
  FormationSpeedKPH = 185
  RacePitKPH = 100.00
  QualPitKPH = 100.00
  NormalPitKPH = 80.00
  TestDaystart = 11:00
  Practice1Start = 11:00
  Practice2Start = 14:00
  Practice3Start = 11:00
  QualifyStart = 14:00
  RaceStart = 14:00
  RaceLaps = 53

  NumStartingLights=6

  SkyBlendSunAngles=(-20.5, -1.0, 11.5, 25.5)

  ShadowMinSunAngle=15.0

  Latitude = 47.65     // degs from Equator (range: -90 to 90, positive is Northern Hemisphere)
  NorthDirection = 340 // the direction of North in degrees (range: 0 to 359)
  RaceDate = September 10   // default date for the race

  SunriseAmbientRGB = (120,120,110)      
  SunriseDirectionalRGB = (255,248,198)
  SunriseFogRGB = (204,174,240)

  DayAmbientRGB = (80,89,126)
  DayDirectionalRGB = (255,255,255)
  DayFogRGB = (203,214,236)

  SunsetAmbientRGB = (130,130,120)
  SunsetDirectionalRGB = (255,248,198)
  SunsetFogRGB = (204,196,122)

  NightAmbientRGB = (5,10,23)
  NightDirectionalRGB = (30,30,30)
  NightFogRGB = (0,0,0)

///////////////////////////SCORETOWER DATA////////////////////////////////////////////

//ScoreboardFont=Brianza_SCOREFONT.tga // default is scoreboardfont.bmp
//ScoreboardBackground=SCORETOWERBKG.tga // default is scoreboardbkg.bmp

//ScoreboardMaxEntries=6 // how many car numbers can be displayed on tower (default is 32)
//ScoreboardStartX=0 // x-position in texture to write first car number (default is 0)
//ScoreboardStartY=1 // y-position in texture to write first car number (default is 10)
//ScoreboardIncX=0 // increment in x-position for each new car number (default is 0)
//ScoreboardIncY=43 // increment in y-position for each new car number (default is 16)
//ScoreboardScaleX=2.3 // scale multiplier for x (default is 1.0)
//ScoreboardScaleY=1.8 // scale multiplier for y (default is 1.0)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

  SettingsFolder = Brianza_ItalianGP
  SettingsCopy = Grip.svm
  SettingsCopy = Brianza_ItalianGP.svm
  SettingsAI = Brianza_ItalianGP.svm
  Qualify Laptime = 82.00
  Race Laptime = 84.50
}

You have to only change those "1" to "0". They are like that in the original track, because there are 2 garages assigned to one pitspot, so first garage has ID "0" and second has "1". In your case, you have only one garage per pitspot, so all garages should (must?) have ID "0".
I'll try that too.
 
Same question here. I hope somebody can answer this question...
We've done some tests last week with real drivers (not AIs :) ).
The conclusion is: it does not work ! sometimes public cars (assigned to default pitgroup) goes in private pit !
 
I can't see anything relevant in gdb:
Code:
Brianza_ItalianGP
{
  Filter Properties = SmallOval 2005 SRGrandPrix OWChallenge *
  Attrition = 30
  TrackName = Brianza Grand Prix
  EventName = Italian Grand Prix
  GrandPrixName = Italian Grand Prix //this must be the same as event name in order to sort circuit info correctly.
  VenueName = Autodromo Nazionale della Brianza
  Location = Milano, Italy
  Length = 5.793 km / 3.600 Miles
  TrackType = Permanent Road Course
  Track Record = , 81.046
  HeadlightsRequired = true  // whether headlights are required at night
  TerrainDataFile = ..\Brianza.tdf         // terrain file override

  GarageDepth = 4.0
  FormationSpeedKPH = 185
  RacePitKPH = 100.00
  QualPitKPH = 100.00
  NormalPitKPH = 80.00
  TestDaystart = 11:00
  Practice1Start = 11:00
  Practice2Start = 14:00
  Practice3Start = 11:00
  QualifyStart = 14:00
  RaceStart = 14:00
  RaceLaps = 53

  NumStartingLights=6

  SkyBlendSunAngles=(-20.5, -1.0, 11.5, 25.5)

  ShadowMinSunAngle=15.0

  Latitude = 47.65     // degs from Equator (range: -90 to 90, positive is Northern Hemisphere)
  NorthDirection = 340 // the direction of North in degrees (range: 0 to 359)
  RaceDate = September 10   // default date for the race

  SunriseAmbientRGB = (120,120,110)      
  SunriseDirectionalRGB = (255,248,198)
  SunriseFogRGB = (204,174,240)

  DayAmbientRGB = (80,89,126)
  DayDirectionalRGB = (255,255,255)
  DayFogRGB = (203,214,236)

  SunsetAmbientRGB = (130,130,120)
  SunsetDirectionalRGB = (255,248,198)
  SunsetFogRGB = (204,196,122)

  NightAmbientRGB = (5,10,23)
  NightDirectionalRGB = (30,30,30)
  NightFogRGB = (0,0,0)

///////////////////////////SCORETOWER DATA////////////////////////////////////////////

//ScoreboardFont=Brianza_SCOREFONT.tga // default is scoreboardfont.bmp
//ScoreboardBackground=SCORETOWERBKG.tga // default is scoreboardbkg.bmp

//ScoreboardMaxEntries=6 // how many car numbers can be displayed on tower (default is 32)
//ScoreboardStartX=0 // x-position in texture to write first car number (default is 0)
//ScoreboardStartY=1 // y-position in texture to write first car number (default is 10)
//ScoreboardIncX=0 // increment in x-position for each new car number (default is 0)
//ScoreboardIncY=43 // increment in y-position for each new car number (default is 16)
//ScoreboardScaleX=2.3 // scale multiplier for x (default is 1.0)
//ScoreboardScaleY=1.8 // scale multiplier for y (default is 1.0)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

  SettingsFolder = Brianza_ItalianGP
  SettingsCopy = Grip.svm
  SettingsCopy = Brianza_ItalianGP.svm
  SettingsAI = Brianza_ItalianGP.svm
  Qualify Laptime = 82.00
  Race Laptime = 84.50
}


I'll try that too.

Yes, no pitgroup assignment in gdb, it sometimes occurs, it must be checked for each track (assignment in gdb is prior taken in account)
 
You have to only change those "1" to "0". They are like that in the original track, because there are 2 garages assigned to one pitspot, so first garage has ID "0" and second has "1". In your case, you have only one garage per pitspot, so all garages should (must?) have ID "0".
Thanks! It looks like that was the root of the problem. Also I didn't realize that those '0' and '1' weren't just a first character of the coordinate number that follows.
 

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