Need some advice/help on Mills Long in Formula ISI

Roadblock

So I've been slowly working my way up through the Open wheel series, played through the trainer and rF3 a couple of times each. I started with the AI at 80%, and was beating it pretty soundly. Worked up to 85-90, and was still able to win most races. I was qualifying in the rF3 car a couple of seconds off the pace of what the AI could do if I let it drive (on most tracks, some I was right with it, some a little farther behind...).

So, I won enough money to buy one of the Formula ISI cars, and started doing a little testing/practice. After a couple of days practicing on Mills Long, I'm still no where close to running times like the AI cars, even at 70%. The AI can drive through the Chicane area pretty much at full speed (or at least at 150+mph), driving over curbs and never seeming to lose traction. If I so much as touch a tire off into the dirt, or try to run over the curbs like the AI cars, I get heavy oversteer and am spinning off the track, so I have to break pretty hard going into that section or I'll be in the wall. I've seen a couple of youtube videos where people are running through this section about as fast as the AI can, and I am just baffled as to how they're doing it. There's also a couple of bumpy patches where if I am on the gas when I hit them, again massive oversteer and a spin.

I'm feeling like I went from being pretty good at the sim, to absolutely horrible. I am just not competitive at all in these F1 cars. Any help/advice would be well appreciated!
 
Hey Roadblock,

First off, i'm not even sure how realistic the AI is, and if they even are, if the trackmaker has set them up properly.
And I don't know either how to check that.
So, so far not very helpful :p

But on the bright side, you are feeling like a noob again, and that is exactly what happens when you raise the bar and try to go faster. I would not be too worried about that.
It will be much worse once you would race against real people I promise you that :)

There is is much to be found online about proper racing, setups etc. too much to post here.
I'll give you this link and you can browse though our wiki for tips. especially the skip barber video is a must. (we never finished it but it still can help)

As far as Lime Rock go's. that section where you jump the crest is the hardest and most infamous part of that track, its difficult to do in a soapbox, let alone racecars.

Its all about confidence, angle and momentum. it probably can be done if 80% AI is doing it. (120% would be closer to real times I reckon)
There are multiple lines through that turn, each car requires a different line, cut it and go wide on top, go wide and cut it on top, etc. Full throttle or lifting. either one can be more efficient.
It also depends on your setup and downforce. I recommend using lower coast, power and anti rollbars, that will help settling the car down (although I never really used the FISI)

If possible right-click AI cars in garage-window and check their sector times. easy to compare and to see what you actually need. you might find its not 100% that turn but also need to improve on other turns and that would bring you closer to their times much faster.

In any car this turn is a big leap of faith initially and you really have to force yourself to commit, so maybe set damage to 0% and just experiment like a madman allowing yourself to fail. at one point it will come to you i'm sure, good luck!
 
Denstjiro said:
Hey Roadblock,

First off, i'm not even sure how realistic the AI is, and if they even are, if the trackmaker has set them up properly.
And I don't know either how to check that.
So, so far not very helpful :p

But on the bright side, you are feeling like a noob again, and that is exactly what happens when you raise the bar and try to go faster. I would not be too worried about that.
It will be much worse once you would race against real people I promise you that :)

There is is much to be found online about proper racing, setups etc. too much to post here.
I'll give you this link and you can browse though our wiki for tips. especially the skip barber video is a must. (we never finished it but it still can help)

As far as Lime Rock go's. that section where you jump the crest is the hardest and most infamous part of that track, its difficult to do in a soapbox, let alone racecars.

Its all about confidence, angle and momentum. it probably can be done if 80% AI is doing it. (120% would be closer to real times I reckon)
There are multiple lines through that turn, each car requires a different line, cut it and go wide on top, go wide and cut it on top, etc. Full throttle or lifting. either one can be more efficient.
It also depends on your setup and downforce. I recommend using lower coast, power and anti rollbars, that will help settling the car down (although I never really used the FISI)

If possible right-click AI cars in garage-window and check their sector times. easy to compare and to see what you actually need. you might find its not 100% that turn but also need to improve on other turns and that would bring you closer to their times much faster.

In any car this turn is a big leap of faith initially and you really have to force yourself to commit, so maybe set damage to 0% and just experiment like a madman allowing yourself to fail. at one point it will come to you i'm sure, good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, and the encouragement :). I will definitely check out the link you sent. I actually don't have the Lime Rock track, but I have heard of it (I think it comes with rFactor 2 -which I will get eventually.. someone just suggested that I might have more fun starting with rFactor, and the several years worth of mod development that has taken place with it).

But back to the Mills track: I am sure you're absolutely right, and there are parts of the track where I could do much better and shave time off, but that chicane is definitely the toughest spot; I'm having to slow 20-30mph below what the AI cars are doing, and even then I sometimes end up in the grass.

I practiced a bit more last night, and did manage to get through that section once at speed, but it felt like pure luck! It seems that you really have to be right on the money to hit the curbs just right.

Here's an example of what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4eG_ERliE. Watch when he hits that section at the following times(ish): 0:39, 2:33 and 3:29. Notice how he perfectly hits that curb on the left leading into the final left turn out of that section. I can't tell how fast he's going exactly, but his lap times are in the 54-55 second range so he's pulling times like the AI does when set to 100%. He makes it look easy honestly, but I've only pulled that off once in a couple of hours of practicing (I'd guess I've run 60-70 practice laps in the F1 car, and I've driven the track tons more than that in the F3 cars). I can't imagine hitting it every time in a race, especially in traffic!

Thanks for the feedback though, I would really love to get to where I can drive like that!
 
Oh rats, how did I see Mills as Lime Rock lol?

Ok skip the LRP comments then, my bad.

Regarding the video, that looks like a flatout section so either you are losing downforce running on those curbs (increase/decrease rideheight) or you are running with too much/too little wings to enable you to attack this section full on.
 
I'm running with maxed out wings on that track (straights aren't long enough to justify otherwise). It seems what happens is either: I'm a little too far to the left when I get the curb, and the car actually hops a bit, and by the time it lands, it's spinning off over the curb on the far side, or, if I'm a bit too far to the right of the curb, I am just too fast to make the upcoming left turn, so again, off in the grass. It seems if you hit it just perfectly, you can make it, but I'm wondering if there is something about the car setup I could change that might give a little bit more margin for error.

I may spend some time trying some laps on some actual F1 courses.. I'm starting to think maybe this course (and that chicane in particular) were designed for less powerful cars...
 
Update: I moved on to the second race in the 'season', which is Toban Long. I read through the advice on you guys' site, and it was very good! I basically decided to just go spend a lot of time running laps on the track, alone (having the other, faster cars there seems to really foul me up when I am trying to learn the track in a new car). The first couple of hours of practice, my best lap was something like 1:19.5. Yesterday, I ran a 1:14.5. Did a few laps before work today, and managed a 1:13.1. If I take all of my best splits and combine them into an imaginary 'best lap', I could run a theoretical 1:10.9 - which is only a couple of seconds off of the AI's times on 100%. So, it seems more practice / track time is the answer :). I'll have another go at the Mills Grand Prix this weekend, and see if just having a lot more time in this car has helped.
 
Good to hear :)

Pretty basic stuff then lol, something we all go through.

I'm not the fastest driver around but my pace can be quite good and I have won quite a few races and championships in my league.
But only when I really dedicated myself to endless practising and testing. my speed/advantage is coming from hard work (as aposed to raw talent)

For me it helps allot to practise online with league buddies and we are also broadcasting hotlaps. so I usually know if I am up to speed or not, and know when and where to improve.
'how' is a different matter lol.
But its good to know an alien is 0.500 faster in a particular sector or even turn, it shows the possibility for me and I am not sure you can do the same with AI as I don't know where the grip etc actually comes from.

But yeah, more practise, more dedication, more experimenting. that's where the money is for normal mortals like us :p
 
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