transparency issue

R1CHO

Hi guys i'm having an issue with the alpha blending transparency issue

in this screen you can see the wire mesh fence appearing threw the trees both are set to double sided shader T1 and the spec RGB is white as are diffuse and ambient, Emissive RGB is set to black, any ideas? i haven't had a problem fixing this before. http://hostingbytes.us/pic.php?p=137180

thx R1CHO
 
The 'alpha' material setting is buggy in rFactor. When two such alpha faces overlap, the renderer doesn't know which on to draw first. The only way around it is to use 'chroma' for one of the materials instead.
 
R Soul said:
The 'alpha' material setting is buggy in rFactor. When two such alpha faces overlap, the renderer doesn't know which on to draw first. The only way around it is to use 'chroma' for one of the materials instead.
Click to expand...

thanks for the answer i've tried various settings including chroma but it made the texture almost dissapear

i tried the treees as tga but that didnt work so i will try the fences as tga

thx R1CHO
 
Ive had similar issues before and had to use a different texture. No idea why and sometimes it was almost impossible to sort. I would attach the objects so it was 1 gmt and flip one from chrome to the other. Would love to know if there was ever a clear cut answer to fix this.
 
R1CHO said:
thanks for the answer i've tried various settings including chroma but it made the texture almost dissapear
Click to expand...
That could be due to poor quality MIP maps (the smaller copies of the image that are shown as you get further away), if you're using the fence texture. In the resized images, the gaps in the fence could be merging together. You could try re-saving the image, especially if you have the source file, and choosing a different mipmap filter (e.g. Lanczos). Another thing you can try is lowering the MIP bias value. 0 is usually okay for scenery but I tend to use -2 if transparency is involved (along with the Lanczos filter).
 
R Soul said:
That could be due to poor quality MIP maps (the smaller copies of the image that are shown as you get further away), if you're using the fence texture. In the resized images, the gaps in the fence could be merging together. You could try re-saving the image, especially if you have the source file, and choosing a different mipmap filter (e.g. Lanczos). Another thing you can try is lowering the MIP bias value. 0 is usually okay for scenery but I tend to use -2 if transparency is involved (along with the Lanczos filter).
Click to expand...

I removed most of the mesh fences and put just a railing fence instead, I still have a few of the mesh fences around that didn't really get affected as there isn't anything with transparency behind them thee is a couple other things that do it when looked for so i will try the Lanczos filter and see .. is that in the save settings of photoshop or the filters? dds or tga?

I tried to blur the mipmap bias to +1 as they where on 0 already but it didnt help either
 
tga images don't have mipmaps. It's a dds setting. I don't use Photoshop but that setting probably is in the save options. And mip bias should be negative, not positive, if you want to see the larger maps at longer distances.
 
R Soul said:
tga images don't have mipmaps. It's a dds setting. I don't use Photoshop but that setting probably is in the save options. And mip bias should be negative, not positive, if you want to see the larger maps at longer distances.
Click to expand...
ahh ok thx
 
Would you upload some of the tree and fence objects with all used textures?
I had this issue some times before and just like the others said, sometimes it shows up and sometimes not, even if the same materials are used.
I would like to have the objects, to see if it is correctable in your case.
Or better, if i am able to find the reason of the problem.
 
I also have this problem sometimes but I always thought I was doing something wrong. Crazy things I would try.

Does it happen also in the Viewer? If it does, I would try to check if relative distances make any difference by getting close and fast from the blocking object.

Does the problem fix if other transparent materials are applied to one of both materials in conflict?
In case of yes, can you get the same fix by applying the new texture on the old material?

Do the presence of other objects affect? I would empty the scn to check it.

Do the relative order of the gmts in scn affect?

enviado mediante tapatalk
 
redapg said:
Would you upload some of the tree and fence objects with all used textures?
I had this issue some times before and just like the others said, sometimes it shows up and sometimes not, even if the same materials are used.
I would like to have the objects, to see if it is correctable in your case.
Or better, if i am able to find the reason of the problem.
Click to expand...


you can have the track in about 40 minutes :p

the chroma setting works in some cases, but i still haven't experimented with the settings that where suggested by R soul I just finished doing the AI for one of the layouts.. thx for the editorials freew67
 
NP, glad people find them helpful.

Ive had this issue with chain fences that are somewhat close to each other. People going thru the fence, trees, etc. Everybody's alpha fighting!

I don't think the order of gmt's have anything to do with it. It doesn't happen often, but is a PIA when it does. I only use DDS textures.

Redapg it happens at my Concord Motorsport Park. I converted it from 2k3 but did upgrade the textures. You can see in turn 1 and turn 4 the tracks fence is fighting with the shorter fence behind it. Feel free to have a play if you want as well. Its not noticeable in all cars so I left it because I got tired of messing with it. lol

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52121548/CMP_betav221.rar
 
the transparency issue doesnt seem to happen in car so much but from the track cam views its noticed... upload crawling Ugghh
 
cool not sure why driving italia isnt working doesnt work for me either

rfcentral and no grip still approving


enjoy your soup
 
its taken from the grandstand looking towards the left hander before the hairpin

those fences may be gone now and replaced with rail its still noticeable looking at t4 from the grandstand.. and a couple more spots and is probably at worst in still shots not really noticeable at speed
 
Thank for the Links :).

I will try out both later, because at the moment i'm lying in bed, suffering with influenca. :(

@freew67, i have 1 question, you wrote:
freew67 said:
.....Its not noticeable in all cars so I left it because I got tired of messing with it......
Click to expand...

Do you remember if it was the cockpitview, that you have used at all cars, while driving?
 
.....it's too boring, so i tried the track from freew67 first.
That is what i have, i hope that is what you meant?

It seems to be a texture caused problem.

Here is how it looks with the original texture of the background fence:
(Choose HD and fullscreen to make it recognizable)

The original texture looks like this:
CHAINLINK02_original.png


The only thing what i have done is to change the "contrast" between the fence and the background of the texture.
In photoshop i have used the "change colour" tool.
Now it looks like this:

And the changed texture looks like this:
CHAINLINK02_darker.png


I think it needs a bit more fine-tuning, but should be the right way.
 
Last edited:
Missed your earlier post. It will be in both cockpit and outside of the car.

Thanks for messing with this because now what is interesting, the fences are not fighting but the treewall behind the fence is. Very interesting...
 
@freew67: try out with setting all tree/treewall materials to transparency blend mode "simple" with a completely black chroma.
By the way, i am not so experienced with using 3DSMax.
In 3DSimEd i have the options "multiple", "simple"...." in a scrolldownmenue in the transparency blend mode section.
How can i change it e.g. from "simple" to "multiple" in 3DSMax?


@R1CHO: call me stupid, but i can not find a place on track where i can find your problem.
I've used all trackcams and have been driving around the track.
Maybe i am a little bit blind at the moment, caused by the influenca :)
Could you post 1 or 2.. screenshots with a description of the exact position on track where it shows up?
But when driving around the track i have noticed that there is no reaction (no sound, no FFB) from the curbs when i drive over them.
That comes, because they have the "wrong" materialname.
Both materialnames start with "road..", so they are treated as road, like it's defined in the *.tdf file.
Change the materialnames of the curbs into something like "rmbl_red" and "rmbl_purple" (rmbl is the default name for curbs).
 
redapg said:
@freew67: try out with setting all tree/treewall materials to transparency blend mode "simple" with a completely black chroma.
By the way, i am not so experienced with using 3DSMax.
In 3DSimEd i have the options "multiple", "simple"...." in a scrolldownmenue in the transparency blend mode section.
How can i change it e.g. from "simple" to "multiple" in 3DSMax?


@R1CHO: call me stupid, but i can not find a place on track where i can find your problem.
I've used all trackcams and have been driving around the track.
Maybe i am a little bit blind at the moment, caused by the influenca :)
Could you post 1 or 2.. screenshots with a description of the exact position on track where it shows up?
But when driving around the track i have noticed that there is no reaction (no sound, no FFB) from the curbs when i drive over them.
That comes, because they have the "wrong" materialname.
Both materialnames start with "road..", so they are treated as road, like it's defined in the *.tdf file.
Change the materialnames of the curbs into something like "rmbl_red" and "rmbl_purple" (rmbl is the default name for curbs).
Click to expand...

yeah they where named rmbl_XXX i had an issue where the curbs felt like they threw the car to much so i changed it to road seeing if it would make a difference .. never changed it back and it didnt really fix the issue i just tuned the car different

if you zoom across the top of the pit building from the grandstand cam it sometimes shows but I did in the end get rid of most of it by putting a different fence in around the track that isn't transparent
 
R1CHO said:
yeah they where named rmbl_XXX i had an issue where the curbs felt like they threw the car to much so i changed it to road seeing if it would make a difference .. never changed it back and it didnt really fix the issue i just tuned the car different...
Click to expand...

I would suggest to name the materials for curbs into rmbl... again, because it makes the driving much more realistic and makes much more fun.
And as long as you e.g. use the default definition from an original ISI- tdf-file, the reaction should be normal and the worse reaction is caused by a bad car-mod, i would say.

R1CHO said:
....if you zoom across the top of the pit building from the grandstand cam it sometimes shows but I did in the end get rid of most of it by putting a different fence in around the track that isn't transparent
Click to expand...

So there is no more need to fix it, if i understand you right?
 
redapg said:
@freew67: try out with setting all tree/treewall materials to transparency blend mode "simple" with a completely black chroma.
By the way, i am not so experienced with using 3DSMax.
In 3DSimEd i have the options "multiple", "simple"...." in a scrolldownmenue in the transparency blend mode section.
How can i change it e.g. from "simple" to "multiple" in 3DSMax?
Click to expand...

Turn off the alpha, and it works fine. No fighting at all. Switch to "simple" and while there is no alpha fighting, the texture gets a hue on the edges (see pic). This texture isn't as bad as others, but Ive seen it way worse. Use Multiple on the tex, no hue but alpha fighting.

View attachment 13253

In Max multiple is when you set:

Source Blend: Src Alpha
Dest Blend: Inv Src Alpha

Simple:
Leave source and dest alone, select the texture and in that menu you will see Chroma Color: with a box next to it. Click the check box and adjust the color as needed.
 
I put everything back as I started except for the adjusted fence texture. Changing the treewall to Chroma did give me the hue but did stop the alpha fighting. I then adjusted the chroma to be the color of the fill in the texture, plus changed the blend pixels to 0. Still had the hue which annoyed me enough that I would rather have the alpha fighting. lol Once I clicked copy all so all dx levels had the chroma setting (yeah I know I should have done this the entire time), poof! Hue is gone and no alpha fighting, anywhere. Interesting....
 
redapg said:
I would suggest to name the materials for curbs into rmbl... again, because it makes the driving much more realistic and makes much more fun.
And as long as you e.g. use the default definition from an original ISI- tdf-file, the reaction should be normal and the worse reaction is caused by a bad car-mod, i would say.



So there is no more need to fix it, if i understand you right?
Click to expand...

yeah that will get done to the rumbles

If you cant see it that its probably not an issue anymore i see it but i know where to look :p but thx
 
freew67 said:
....In Max multiple is when you set:
Source Blend: Src Alpha
Dest Blend: Inv Src Alpha
Simple:
Leave source and dest alone, select the texture and in that menu you will see Chroma Color: with a box next to it. Click the check box and adjust the color as needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Information, one more thing i would like to know: what exactly is the colour of the chroma causing?

freew67 said:
....I put everything back as I started except for the adjusted fence texture. ........Hue is gone and no alpha fighting, anywhere. Interesting....
Click to expand...

It's the old "try and error"-game, that we all do love so much :D

R1CHO said:
...If you cant see it that its probably not an issue anymore i see it but i know where to look but thx
Click to expand...

To know where the things show up, helps to find them surely. :)
And the "normal" player wants to have a race and no sightseeing tour, and as long as it's almost not noticable.......
 
redapg said:
And the "normal" player wants to have a race and no sightseeing tour, and as long as it's almost not noticable.......
Click to expand...
You are right. When driving concentrated you can miss to see several things that might be disturbing. The problem is that once you get to realize about them you sometimes cannot get them out of your brain. :)
When you pass by the problematic point of the track, subconsciously your eyes are ready to look at the problematic spot of the screen.


enviado mediante tapatalk
 
Redapg, you would be amazed at the amount of trail and error Ive done thru the years. I was testing a texture idea and ended up with a dragstrip. lol

I always assumed the chroma color was the fill color in the texture. Most of ISI's textures use grey and that's what most of chroma colors were as well.
 
freew67 said:
Redapg, you would be amazed at the amount of trail and error Ive done thru the years.........................
Click to expand...

You are not alone :)

With the chroma... when i started, a few years ago, to change the first track to the needs of our league, i always used the 3DSimEd.
And i never changed the default setting of black for the chroma, because just changing the blend-mode from simple to multiple or the other way round, with, if needed, additionally changing the Alphas and DTX levels of the textures, gave me the wanted results.
When i am VERY bored one day, i will make a test with chroma-settings i think.

SPASKIS said:
......The problem is that once you get to realize about them you sometimes cannot get them out of your brain. :)
When you pass by the problematic point of the track, subconsciously your eyes are ready to look at the problematic spot of the screen.
Click to expand...

Yes, i do agree, but if there is an issue like "the transparency-effect is not as wanted" and that don't causes a flickering or similar visible disturbance, so that only the modder knows about it, there sometimes is no need to fix it, as long as the modder can live with the knowledge that his work is not "perfect". ;)
 
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