[OT] Anyone believe that pCars will become a real sim racing game when its released?

Guimengo said:
It's not the physics that's changing, it's the new tire model being tweaked and corrected. Then the driving will be influenced by the different car parts that are also being modeled properly. Don't make the mistake of comparing one game's work based on another (talking about rF2/AC). Personally I don't currently enjoy neither rF2 nor pCARS, in fact I've uninstalled pCARS and will try again a couple of months down the line.

Right now there's plenty of testing happening and some guys with more voice are having a good say on things, there's no need for me to go and validate stuff. It also seems that the voice of reason usually overcomes mindless fanboyism/personal desires when it comes to the development, even if the reasonable stuff is in less amount. The worst thing there can be for a game are biased people "helping" develop it, especially when some people that fall under that category are beta testers. The way people are defensive with their game of choice here rivals that of Playstation vs XBox arguments.
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Would you agree rF2 physics, tyres, FFB in last 2 years has been subtle changes.
Thing most noticeable to me was less grip with new rubber.
Only minor changes in some setups needed since first build too, some still as good.

I sat through a lot more builds of pCARS, and what I perceive is "feel" is just not there.
Why I should expect it will change out of sight, did iRacing upgrades transform it.

You hit the nail on the head mate not all sims can do the lot.
For mine rF2 hit the nail on the head with "feel" all other sims are pretenders ( iRacing and AC I have not tried though)
That is how plain it is to me. :)


I never asked for anything in rF2 but fix my mirrors and more Historic content, the rest to me is inconsequential.
Whatever they do they can't stuff the "feel". :)

I get people putting other sims graphics as some yardstick or balancing act, I do, but they are the same sort of people in F1 Challenge never understood why people still ran GPL.

Personally I think rF2 historic track graphics are the best looking and most complete besides the fact they have free-roam.
AC and pCARS you be driving between invisible walls forever, not getting hurled into the scenery in a ball of flames
almost killing a bunch of cows ! . lol
 
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NWDogg said:
I think you've confused the developer 'Simbin' (GTR, GTR2) with 'Slightlymad Studios' (pCARS, Need for Speed: Shift). Simbin is doing Raceroom Experience. It's not a terrible racing game (err, hotlapping game rather) but it's not up to standards of rF2 in physics or force-feedback. It's a free-to-play, casual-audience focused game, not a core sim like rF2 or iRacing, but more sim-like than a NFS or maybe GT/Forza.

Edit: I've just looked it up, and apparently there's a common denominator between the two of 'Blimey! games', who've done both under different publishers it seems. My apologies, seems you were right after all.
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Right, Simbin was originally formed from a group of modders who created a FIA GT mod for F1C (???). They formed a company (Simbin) and Ian Bell was the "talking head".
They then put out GTR, GTL, and finally GTR2 (in that order) before Bell and most of the developers/coders left the company. They then formed Blimey Games which morphed into Slighlty Mad Studios. So these guys have proven in the past that they can deliver, hopefully they can in the future. At least for me there's plenty of room for more than one Sim. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
 
@ Durge:

I can't speak for rF2 going back that far because I first tried it in April (but got a refund), then a couple of months ago I bought it again. pCARS is developing new systems and the 2nd one (1st being FFB I believe) from recent times is the work on the tire model. So here we're talking of a completely new way of calculating everything related to tires as well as force feedback, so yes, it clearly can and will change. The feeling may still be off because of an invisible wall that caps progress but once the break through happens it should spread throughout all cars rather quickly. There's been some noticeable change there but some people may have problems noticing because there's very little difference in tire performance - under normal conditions - from a real time simulation to a pre-determined model.

rFactor 2 has the advantage on tire simulation, no doubt, but it's also understandable that it's far from final and optimized - like so many aspects of the game. FFB in rF2 is extremely detailed but I feel the existing content is letting it down, the way most cars fail to portray grip and like Empty Box mentioned, that need to constantly micromanage. That is not realistic. Driving most cars cannot be difficult, even driving at a faster pace. But driving at the limit, or very near it, in a consistent manner is the difficult bit. I've never raced anything in real life except for vast experience with go karts and having a "good touch" with regular street cars, but in a sim I really struggle to carry on that speed because of how the game portrays reality. rF2 isn't realistic as it has the potential to be and I have to strongly disagree with people who say otherwise. Part of the foundation is there but it needs great development. pCARS can only be talked about the same manner once there's a break through in the current tire model, which to be honest may not be that far away... maybe a few months? But that's just one part of it.

I'm greatly enjoying the little bit I've been exposed to Assetto Corsa as it provides me with a driving sensation that is similar to that of GSC 2013 but "next gen." I disagree with people hailing it as the greatest thing ever because it simply isn't finished yet. I don't think there's excessive grip like some claim. I do agree the F Abarth feels well planted but bar some adjustment perhaps to the power delivery or throttle response, it should be golden. That thing has 180-200hp and runs on slicks, it should offer good grip. That real life lap doesn't look too bad, maybe the driver oversteps the car's limits a couple of times and gets all squiggly but his steering corrections don't feel anywhere near being excessive especially if you're the one in the cockpit. Anyway, I digress here.

You are mixing your personal feelings and what you're looking for with what a real life portrayal is. It is perfectly fine in your opinion to have rF2 as the holy grail of racing games even at its current form. Taking rF2 graphics for example, how can you say it's the best? The core graphical bit isn't even finished, HDR stuff won't be proper until the base is correct. More on opinions, it's also fine if someone thinks Forza or Gran Turismo are the greatest driving games ever and that surpass the titles available on the PC. The problem comes with the way that opinion is expressed, as there'll always be dissenting voices - correct or not.
 
Spinelli said:
But now you are fudging/"dumbing down"/compromising the physics in order to make up for our lack of feel.

That is not what a hardcore sim should be doing, in my opinion. It's what 2 older sims did with 1 of them not just opinion but technically proven, and judging from video comparisons and lots of peoples comments a real new sim may be doing it again.

In my opinion, what needs to happen is rather than pure physics/handling dynamics being fudged/"dumbed down"/compromised in order to make up for our EXTREME lack of feeling compared to real life, rather than that, the FFB needs to incorporate more info into it in order to make up for our lack of feeling. This way the pure physics of the vehicle dynamics stay as hardcore and industrial as possible but the FFB area of our hardware is used to give us more feelings about the car than you do from just the wheel itself in real life (in real life probably less than even 25% of feeling a car comes from the steering wheel itself).

Basically the FFB itself has to be worked on in order to make up for the lack of feel we have compared to real life, rather than the pure physics/vehicle dynamics themselves being fudged/"dumbed down"/compromised in order to compensate for our lack of feeling.
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How can you add more to the FFB than exists in real life? Isn't that merely fudging the physics, which you object to?
 
Do you remember this, guys?

Ian Bell said:
SHIFT is built on the most advanced physics engine we've made, and is by far the most advanced and realistic physics engine of any of the mainstream racing games.
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That last part is a clever way of excluding simulators from comparison and be able to say "THE most advanced and realistic" :)

The same studio is now working on pCARS. So far, development still seems more focused on graphics, than on anything else. I wonder how much can they do about physics in time remaining until release. Especially considering how much attention they paid for physics up to this point.

This game resembles Gran Tourismo, Forza Motorsport and Need For Speed: SHIFT 2 more than any other game. I believe this is actually their aim, despite their claims - to create a natural successor for NFS: Shift. Graphics and sound is their battlefield with GT and FM and they have to focus on it, at cost of physics if necessary.
 
pcars is a real sim and is being designed by simulations legends simbin. If you were a member you would see a huge physics section of the forum dedicated to the most intricate physics details, like heat transfer from the rim to the tyre, and that the physics guru is a super geek who is very passionate and dedicated to making the physics as realistic as possible.
 
PRC Steve said:
pCars has nothing to do with Simbin
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The founders of simbin like Ian Bell run pcars. The current simbin is comprised of part of the old team as well, but i think the main members formed blimey games, like Ian bell, and Doug Arno who worked on the GTR series physics. It is a hardcore sim trust me, and many of the cars are great , they are just still evolving.
 
I have trouble getting the FFB tuned in for pCars so its not the sim I play the most by a long shot, but to try and insinuate that they haven't been working on physics (tyre model etc) up to this point is laughable and ignorant of the facts. Whether you think the progress is any good is one thing, but to suggest they have not been working on it or concentrating on handling? well thats flat out false.
 
F60 said:
The founders of simbin like Ian Bell run pcars. The current simbin is comprised of part of the old team as well, but i think the main members formed blimey games, like Ian bell, and Doug Arno who worked on the GTR series physics. It is a hardcore sim trust me, and many of the cars are great , they are just still evolving.
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I know full well who runs SMS and who is involved. I was a member for a long time before I requested a refund due to me not liking the rate of development on the Physics and FFB side of things. It is not a hardcore sim. It is a nice looking advancement of Shift 2 aimed at the very people who believed Shift 2 was the ultimate simulator.
 
F60 said:
pcars is a real sim and is being designed by simulations legends simbin. If you were a member you would see a huge physics section of the forum dedicated to the most intricate physics details, like heat transfer from the rim to the tyre, and that the physics guru is a super geek who is very passionate and dedicated to making the physics as realistic as possible.
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This. Even if we can't talk about what we see as member, I can say I'm really impressed. They just need time as they have the team and the money.

Edit after reading above Steve post: and don't say to them they are making a new Shift, unless you want to make them really really angry ;)
 
pcars team is massive and full of talented people. Their rate of progression is amazing, and the level of features in their tyre model will surpass anything on the market right now and coming in the near future. it handles sliding very naturally and has a great solid feel, very similar to AC so it just needs more tweaking.
 
PRC Steve said:
I know full well who runs SMS and who is involved. I was a member for a long time before I requested a refund due to me not liking the rate of development on the Physics and FFB side of things. It is not a hardcore sim. It is a nice looking advancement of Shift 2 aimed at the very people who believed Shift 2 was the ultimate simulator.
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Oh god - Shift 2, while fun on a 360 controller, was almost undriveable with a wheel. The car would wander all over the place on the straights with no steering input. Making turns? Forget about it :)

Thats why I have stayed away from pCars ... i know who is making it :) The shift 2 people ... no thank you!

But damn - that is a pretty movie :)
 
F60 said:
pcars team is massive and full of talented people. Their rate of progression is amazing, and the level of features in their tyre model will surpass anything on the market right now and coming in the near future. it handles sliding very naturally and has a great solid feel, very similar to AC so it just needs more tweaking.
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PCars does not come close to reality based on my experience.

The way the cars are driven into corners, the reactions you get when playing with the throttle, the reactions you get mid corner on direction change, the sliding characteristics, the general chassis behavior, entire car frame bouncing in a weird on/off way over bumps, the way the cars grip on high speed long constant turns where you can get them in this weird understeer while keep the line of the turn in check andbarely loosing speed, I could keep on going and going and going on detailed analysis of that game.

But ya, they are doing a good job with the oversteer sliding on some cars though, but that is 1 area out of 1000000 different things you do when driving a car. It's 1 area out of 9000000 different handling characteristics involved in vehicle dynamics.

By praising physics just because the slides feel nice, is super duper duper DUPER oversimplifying vehicle dynamics simulation. There is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to racecar behavior simulation than just who can make a car slide the most natural and feel the nicest. There is a million times more to car handling physics simulation than "most natural feeling powersteer wins" mindset.

Not to mention, when you actually race, well, correcting big slides is probably what you do THE LEAST, yet in sims it's what ppl look at the most when judging what sim is the best.

People need to be analyzing more on the things you do when ou are actually taking a corner, you know, the whole point of these sims in the first place?... For example, how cars unload/load their grip as they are winding/unwinding the wheel, what is the chassis doing to the 4 corners on a quick direction change on a fast chicane, how does the entry feel when you loosen the coast diff lock, when im right near having to make a correction due to oversteer BUT I don't have to make a corrections just yet (you can feel it's about to slide anytime soon, but just not quite yet) how does the rear act at this point, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Why is it always just, "well I snap spin so the sim must suck", "well I can do nice powerslides so the sim must be amazing"? Do people actually drive and take corners and brake, and use the load transfer to their advantage to give the front that extra bit of grip and use it to get the rear to rotate just a touch around the apex phase etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Don't people do that kind of stuff and think about it? Basically do people actually think about all the things going on that makes a sim.. well...A SIM? Or does everyone just drive, turn wheel, correct powersteer, drive, turn wheel, powerslide?

Tere are 900 subjects to focus on when it comes to these sim arguments, yet all people talk about are "well this one has more natural powerslides and I feel more in control, so therefore it must automatically be the overall best simulation of taking a car through all the complexities of a corner in a high performance situation". Im sorry but this is so far off. It's just one aspect, out of sooo many areas in car handling behaviour, that the developer may have done a good job in.

Geez
 
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F60 said:
................, and the level of features in their tyre model will surpass anything on the market right now and coming in the near future.
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Sales guff

Open ya eyes

lol
 
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Guimengo said:
@ Durge:
You are mixing your personal feelings and what you're looking for with what a real life portrayal is. It is perfectly fine in your opinion to have rF2 as the holy grail of racing games even at its current form. Taking rF2 graphics for example, how can you say it's the best? The core graphical bit isn't even finished, HDR stuff won't be proper until the base is correct. More on opinions, it's also fine if someone thinks Forza or Gran Turismo are the greatest driving games ever and that surpass the titles available on the PC. The problem comes with the way that opinion is expressed, as there'll always be dissenting voices - correct or not.
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It is the BEST ?

If I do not know whats the best for me then I am a idiot.


No no no you got it all wrong


My Holy Grail would be a 1950-1960 full on "hardcore" no aids sim with all the fictional stuff taken out all together, no huds no radios no horns def no aids etc etc etc

That is all I ever wanted since GPL ?



" but but but you can turn all the aids off anyway ????? "

Still do not get it do people. :)

BTW I never ever said the graphics are better I was meaning they are the best for me , most realistic ........I am interested in whats others think but not to debate it.

I do not think others are wrong they like what they like
Tell me ? what is the most authentic Old spa and monza out of them all which is it ? You must have a opinion ?


Modern tracks the 3 rivals match each other imho
But in Historic rF2 rules, it has the feel and ambience, its "dirty" .......not shiny clean DX11 graphics. :)


I'm only interested in historics and for me rF2 is the standout all there is to it if you want to debate that is your problem :)
Take iRacing is not perfect, but people that like it will defy anything to be better, so they are wrong it is not the best. ?

You cant sit there and tell me I have mixed feelings and I do not know whats best for me. lol
 
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I've been there, let me tell you it's not dirty now and I can't imagine it being any different 45 years ago. I don't want a game to apply an image filter to emulate the broadcast image quality of back in the day either. Anyway, as you said, no more debate.
 
SMS are very talented, but pCars is just a much better Shift, and there's nothing wrong with that. Too bad, 'cause M3 is great fun.
 
I chipped in early to pcars as I really liked the idea of the project etc but since day one till today I cannot get to grips with it. Sure it looks pretty, has a neat range of cars/tracks but the driving for me is just wrong. I can't put my finger on it but it really does feel like Shift evolved. (even though they said no code from shift was used - I find hard to believe).

I've left my money in the pot for now hoping one day it will wow me but I don't believe that day will ever come. They had a very clever marketing strategy fund the game from pc gamers to ultimately build a console game. Not saying that's right/wrong but I don't think we will ever see a real Sim as some claim.

The great thing now is that there is choice for everyone. iRacing, rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, pCars, Gamestock Car etc etc. Hopefully the choice will drive development on all products.
 
they could emerge their success in making the sim in the future: Rfactor ffb, combined physics from ISI and AC, AC UI and pcars graphics and finally combined content from all of them :D and of course all the features that these games has... now that would be something.
 
Spinelli said:
PCars does not come close to reality based on my experience.

The way the cars are driven into corners, the reactions you get when playing with the throttle, the reactions you get mid corner on direction change, the sliding characteristics, the general chassis behavior, entire car frame bouncing in a weird on/off way over bumps, the way the cars grip on high speed long constant turns where you can get them in this weird understeer while keep the line of the turn in check andbarely loosing speed, I could keep on going and going and going on detailed analysis of that game.

But ya, they are doing a good job with the oversteer sliding on some cars though, but that is 1 area out of 1000000 different things you do when driving a car. It's 1 area out of 9000000 different handling characteristics involved in vehicle dynamics.

By praising physics just because the slides feel nice, is super duper duper DUPER oversimplifying vehicle dynamics simulation. There is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to racecar behavior simulation than just who can make a car slide the most natural and feel the nicest. There is a million times more to car handling physics simulation than "most natural feeling powersteer wins" mindset.

Not to mention, when you actually race, well, correcting big slides is probably what you do THE LEAST, yet in sims it's what ppl look at the most when judging what sim is the best.

People need to be analyzing more on the things you do when ou are actually taking a corner, you know, the whole point of these sims in the first place?... For example, how cars unload/load their grip as they are winding/unwinding the wheel, what is the chassis doing to the 4 corners on a quick direction change on a fast chicane, how does the entry feel when you loosen the coast diff lock, when im right near having to make a correction due to oversteer BUT I don't have to make a corrections just yet (you can feel it's about to slide anytime soon, but just not quite yet) how does the rear act at this point, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Why is it always just, "well I snap spin so the sim must suck", "well I can do nice powerslides so the sim must be amazing"? Do people actually drive and take corners and brake, and use the load transfer to their advantage to give the front that extra bit of grip and use it to get the rear to rotate just a touch around the apex phase etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Don't people do that kind of stuff and think about it? Basically do people actually think about all the things going on that makes a sim.. well...A SIM? Or does everyone just drive, turn wheel, correct powersteer, drive, turn wheel, powerslide?

Tere are 900 subjects to focus on when it comes to these sim arguments, yet all people talk about are "well this one has more natural powerslides and I feel more in control, so therefore it must automatically be the overall best simulation of taking a car through all the complexities of a corner in a high performance situation". Im sorry but this is so far off. It's just one aspect, out of sooo many areas in car handling behaviour, that the developer may have done a good job in.

Geez
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I mentioned the sliding characteristics because the tyre physics are without doubt the hardest and most important aspect to model accurately in a car simulation. Without question, and the likes of iracing and rf2 still do not have this puzzle solved, especially rf2 which feels like ice past the limit. So the fact pcars is quite good in this area is very promising. All the other stuff you mention is important but it easier to solve and measure, and I don't think pcars is as bad as you say in these areas. Maybe some cars are but the main cars are very good especially the F1 which is the second best one I have driven in a sim after Ferrari academy.

by the way, Ben collins, 'the stig' is beta tester for the game and he gives a lot of feedback in the forums and he is quite happy with how the game is progressing. Most of the people who complain about vehicle dynamics don't understand half the stuff they are complaining about.


The way the cars are driven into corners, the reactions you get when playing with the throttle, the reactions you get mid corner on direction change, the sliding characteristics, the general chassis behavior, entire car frame bouncing in a weird on/off way over bumps, the way the cars grip on high speed long constant turns where you can get them in this weird understeer while keep the line of the turn in check andbarely loosing speed, I could keep on going and going and going on detailed analysis of that game.
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This depends so much on driving style, setup, track and car characteristics that its very hard to confirm what you are saying is true.
 
YoLolo69 said:
No, they renamed pcars.exe to flighsim.exe and sold it like this ;)

Edit: I'll test how the Gumper fly those days to make a smart answer ;)
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LOL In all seriousness it was this video that broke the camels back for me and that's when I got refunded. It would be good to know the physics have improved from your test. :)
 
Just wondering Jerry. If the answer is no what would you call it then?
 
The "SteamOS" logo at the end of the trailer caught my attention. If they have the client running on Linux, the server bit should be more or less trivial (if you even can set up private servers with pCARS, no idea, haven't tried it in a year or so).

While I agree the graphics look gorgeous in that trailer (which I'm sure is not completely free of some post-processing magic), back in the day when I still tried the weekly pcars builds the physics and ffb left much to be desired. Someone called rF2 "a beautiful woman dressed in rags" the other day, to which I replied "then pCARS is like chatting up a hot girl in a bar, only to have an Austin-Powers-style "It's a MAN, baby" experience when you take her home later ;)[1]

While this may have changed with the recent builds, I too believe the multitude of supported platform will define a lowest common denominator which can only hurt the sim experience. We'll see.

All the best, Uwe

[1]: Not meant to be derogatory or offensive to gay people and or those having undergone a gender change or doing so in the near future, seriously.
 
It's a good-looking racing game and you're all allowed to like it even though it's not very realistic.
 
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this post are opinions, and should not be confused with facts that can be verified by anything other than the posters personal experience.

Yeah, I think pCARS will be a great sim when it's finished. SMS have done a lot of effective work to remove the "Shift" stain that it had when they first started. I haven't upgraded my machine since joining the pCARS development and it has continued to improve in both physics and general performance. I see no reason why it can't be a great sim. The continued progress shows them moving to that point.

For disclosure, I have spent most of my sim time with iRacing in the last 2 years, with heavy use of all ISI based sims before that(got my sim racing start in GTR2).

There is one statement regarding sims that makes my skin crawl everytime I hear it.

"Good graphics come at the expense of good physics." - I think that in this day and age, with the powerful PC's that we have access to, that this philosophy no longer has a place. Even worse, I think that this philosophy has a tendency to bias critical thinking when forming an opinion about pCARS, or any title really. Yes, we can have both good looking graphics, and great and "realistic" physics. And in fact we should be demanding both, imo.

I gave up any allegiance to any one sim racing game a long time ago. I have them all. None of them are perfect, but none of them are the best either.

As far as realism goes.... there isn't a sim made that is so close to real life racing. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being real life and 1 being Mario Kart, all of the sims I have played, and I have played them all, sit right about 3. More realistic than Mario Kart, but far away from the real world. And just to help define that a bit further, SMS's Shift series sat at about 1.1 for me.
 
Ok, here my "jump festival" special dedicated to M. Steve, yeah! ;)

So don't ask me to analyze if this look real, feel real, look ugly, sound toy, etc. the purpose of this video was just to update, if update you see, the jump video posted by Steve and coming from a pretty old build 127 from Mars 2012 . Saying that, judging a car simulator (or whatever name you want to give to pcars it's your opinion you're free) by looking to the way cars jump is as stupid (IMHO no offence guys) than judging FlightSim by looking the physics of the wheels when rolling on the tarmac ;) Anyway some will laugh, some will be Waooo, some will have no opinion, it's up to you to argue, not me. The only thing I can say is that I believe they will go as far as they wanna go according what I can read and see from this past year.

Anyway, I let you judge if they improve physics when the 4 wheels leave the ground which is a far different story than managing physics of the 4 wheels on the ground according an heavy and very specialized discussion I followed on the physic department of SMS forum. Sorry for the bad quality, I didn't want to spend 12 hours uploading it ;)

Some jumps from PCars, current build 605:

 
The thing that really bugged me about that video--the sunglasses on the dash of that one vehicle didn't move when the car flipped on its side. That was not really a great design choice, but, I think that's a testament to how ridiculous those graphics are. That's something that I would never even notice on any other racing game, I think. I've honestly never seen a racing game look so absolutely gorgeous.

After seeing some videos, I'm really starting to think that I might be more interested in this game being a GT/Forza clone for PC rather than another sim with arguable physics, handling, FFB, etc... This looks like something that I could sit back on the couch with 360 controller in hand, and have a blast driving around like I used to with Gran Turismo, before I discovered 'sim' racing. Seriously, we have rF2, iRacing, GSC, AC (well, maybe not AC for me) for serious sim driving, but we don't have a really fun casual racing game with amazing graphics and decent approximated physics. I have no interest in the next-gen consoles, so this being on PC is great.

If they make the career mode progression fun, like Gran Turismo, and good online play like Forza, then this will be an easy purchase. If they try to go the 'pure sim' route though, then they *might* not succeed (or live up to current standards)...and that's a bigger waste of potential in my opinion than just going for casual fun.
 
I didn't see any sunglasses on any of the dashes of those cars lol. I did see a gauge cluster on one of them. But I agree with you NWDogg.
 
Hmm...maybe I misconstrued the gauge cluster as a pair of glasses? If so, that makes perfect sense then. I guess maybe the graphics are too good then, or my eyesight is getting bad, on or the other lol. I'll have to watch it again.

Edit: Yep, instrument cluster, on the Focus (or a car that looks like a Focus). Looks like a trip to the eye doctor is in order.
 
YoLolo69 said:
Ok, here my "jump festival" special dedicated to M. Steve, yeah! ;)

So don't ask me to analyze if this look real, feel real, look ugly, sound toy, etc. the purpose of this video was just to update, if update you see, the jump video posted by Steve and coming from a pretty old build 127 from Mars 2012 . Saying that, judging a car simulator (or whatever name you want to give to pcars it's your opinion you're free) by looking to the way cars jump is as stupid (IMHO no offence guys) than judging FlightSim by looking the physics of the wheels when rolling on the tarmac ;) Anyway some will laugh, some will be Waooo, some will have no opinion, it's up to you to argue, not me. The only thing I can say is that I believe they will go as far as they wanna go according what I can read and see from this past year.

Anyway, I let you judge if they improve physics when the 4 wheels leave the ground which is a far different story than managing physics of the 4 wheels on the ground according an heavy and very specialized discussion I followed on the physic department of SMS forum. Sorry for the bad quality, I didn't want to spend 12 hours uploading it ;)

Some jumps from PCars, current build 605:

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First off thanks for taking the trouble to record and upload and secondly thanks for confirming a few more things for me :)
Seeing things like a 1000+ KG car fly for 100+ meters through the air just does not appeal to me, even the controlled jumps where you were able to carry on should have resulted in a snapped chassis lol. How can the Lotus with the majority of weight in the rear land on its nose.
I don't regret refunding my tool-pack and spending the spare cash on the 2 URD mods. I can always repurchase pCars on release if by some miracle it morphs into a simulator but I doubt it will.
The track in the video is a fantasy track ? If so why would the devs make such a jump/crest knowing full well the results of driving at speed over it if they were not targeting a certain group of users. Great fun but if that's what I wanted from a driving game I wouldn't have invested a fortune in equipment and just gone out and bought Track Mania and an xbox controller :eek:
 
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I finally caved in and requested a refund. I just can't justify keeping money in the product when I don't play or enjoy it or even have it installed.
 
brabham67 said:
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this post are opinions, and should not be confused with facts that can be verified by anything other than the posters personal experience.

Yeah, I think pCARS will be a great sim when it's finished. SMS have done a lot of effective work to remove the "Shift" stain that it had when they first started. I haven't upgraded my machine since joining the pCARS development and it has continued to improve in both physics and general performance. I see no reason why it can't be a great sim. The continued progress shows them moving to that point.

For disclosure, I have spent most of my sim time with iRacing in the last 2 years, with heavy use of all ISI based sims before that(got my sim racing start in GTR2).

There is one statement regarding sims that makes my skin crawl everytime I hear it.

"Good graphics come at the expense of good physics." - I think that in this day and age, with the powerful PC's that we have access to, that this philosophy no longer has a place. Even worse, I think that this philosophy has a tendency to bias critical thinking when forming an opinion about pCARS, or any title really. Yes, we can have both good looking graphics, and great and "realistic" physics. And in fact we should be demanding both, imo.

I gave up any allegiance to any one sim racing game a long time ago. I have them all. None of them are perfect, but none of them are the best either.

As far as realism goes.... there isn't a sim made that is so close to real life racing. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being real life and 1 being Mario Kart, all of the sims I have played, and I have played them all, sit right about 3. More realistic than Mario Kart, but far away from the real world. And just to help define that a bit further, SMS's Shift series sat at about 1.1 for me.
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lol, good disclaimer...everyone should use this :p

I don't agree that we can have both perfect graphics and great physics just yet. Good gaming pc cost about 1000€ atm so everyone can't afford that. Not good sales if sim makers would market only those with high end pcs...of course there are lots of people with high end pcs but they are not all playing racing simulators.
 
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