Project BruteForce2 - IONI-based DIY DD FFB Wheel

Spinelli said:
Just saw this pic now...Is there anyway not to have 20 ft of space between the wheelrim and the base? I'm already going to have to lower my FOV of the the game because of the big motor (screens will be further back from me) but, wow, that huge gap is going to make the distance even larger...
Click to expand...

I think most will be going VR so this will not be an issue,
saying that a long shaft is not good ( although the servo bearing are very strong -leverage is not a good thing)

I have new fitting + a thinner mech on the back of my formula wheel now so everything much closer to the servo
( sold the wheel in pic as the rear of it to big etc )
 
Does anyone have any info about the Ioni pro HC? I've been told that you can use the full power of most of the motor options with this new "high current" version of the Ioni. I'm in the middle of planning a build and just wanted to know if anyone has any ideas or advice about this.
 
Paul Loatman said:
Does anyone have any info about the Ioni pro HC? I've been told that you can use the full power of most of the motor options with this new "high current" version of the Ioni. I'm in the middle of planning a build and just wanted to know if anyone has any ideas or advice about this.
Click to expand...
I think I heard the same about the IONIzer. Would love info on both.
 
Spinelli said:
I think I heard the same about the IONIzer. Would love info on both.
Click to expand...

Someone i've talked to said the IONI HC should be available in 3-4 weeks. Never heard of the IONIzer, but i'll probably just go for the HC since it's apparently a straight swap with the IONI Pro drive in an IONIcube, so the build would be similar to what most are using which i'd guess would give you a benefit in troubleshooting if you ever have a problem.
 
Paul Loatman said:
Never heard of the IONIzer, but i'll probably just go for the HC since it's apparently a straight swap with the IONI Pro drive in an IONIcube, so the build would be similar to what most are using which i'd guess would give you a benefit in troubleshooting if you ever have a problem.
Click to expand...
I've posted about it a few times around here, I'll find it.

Here you go...

"The following is what Ollie told me (paraphrased):

SIM-ple for IONI
The SIM-ple for IONI replaces a lot of the parts you'd normally have to get like the IONICUBE, STM32F4Discovery, braking resistor, SMV2USB, etc. It also reduces the external cabling requirements. It (SIM-ple) is currently being validated, will start to be shipped in a couple weeks, and has a long waiting list as-well.

IONIZER
Granite Devices make an external power stage product called "IONIZER". Ollie will be modifying it so that it can be used with the IONI. This will allow currents of ~30A at 48V DC which should be good enough to drive the Big MiGe to 30 Nm. It will not be ready in the short-term."

P.S. "IONI" refers to the IONI Pro, and that message was from around July or August of this year.
 
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Spinelli said:
I've posted about it a few times around here, I'll find it.

Here you go...

"The following is what Ollie told me (paraphrased):

SIM-ple for IONI
The SIM-ple for IONI replaces a lot of the parts you'd normally have to get like the IONICUBE, STM32F4Discovery, braking resistor, SMV2USB, etc. It also reduces the external cabling requirements. It (SIM-ple) is currently being validated, will start to be shipped in a couple weeks, and has a long waiting list as-well.

IONIZER
Granite Devices make an external power stage product called "IONIZER". Ollie will be modifying it so that it can be used with the IONI. This will allow currents of ~30A at 48V DC which should be good enough to drive the Big MiGe to 30 Nm. It will not be ready in the short-term."
Click to expand...

That Sim-ple option sounds interesting, but also sounds like it would be a long wait if i tried getting that now. Does this Ollie person have a website or anything? The motor i'm getting is going to be about a month out, so i'm not in a huge rush for the rest of the build, but i'd like to get it working as soon as i have the motor.

The latest thing posted on the openservodrive site is from several months ago: http://openservodrive.com/ionizer-an-external-power-stage-board/

They're saying it's being considered for a DIY board, which is just above my willingness to bother with. I'm not entirely sure if they ever finished it.
 
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Paul Loatman said:
That Sim-ple option sounds interesting, but also sounds like it would be a long wait if i tried getting that now. Does this Ollie person have a website or anything? The motor i'm getting is going to be about a month out, so i'm not in a huge rush for the rest of the build, but i'd like to get it working as soon as i have the motor.

The latest thing posted on the openservodrive site is from several months ago: http://openservodrive.com/ionizer-an-external-power-stage-board/

They're saying it's being considered for a DIY board, which is just above my willingness to bother with. I'm not entirely sure if they ever finished it.
Click to expand...
Well he wrote all that to me in July or August; I'm not sure what the current status of those parts are.

I don't know if he has a site but I can give you his email. I'll find it when I get home later.
 
wooow you are very crazy ah ah ah ah ah

Thanks for this thread ;) i'm crazy too :)
 
Hey Guys,
IONI Pro HC will be able to drive the big MiGe, Lenze and AKM servos to full potential. If you intend using those servos, and make use of the full torque, get IONI Pro HC, otherwise the standard or Pro would be fine (for most people)

When I visited Tero of Granite Devices in September, we discussed forward development of these controllers for FFB wheels, and I suspect IONIZER will not be developed - no need, as Pro HC will be more than capable, plus, there are heaps of other points I have discussed with Tero on where to go with this....

Suffice it to say, there are big changes coming, I will feedback in the next week or 2.

edit:I have also added 1x Cube diagram to the first page, thanx all!

Cheers,
Beano
 
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Good news then! Thanks for the heads up.

Can you tell, at some point there will be no need to use the Disco board (IONI will do both - driving servo and acting as FFB controller) or that won't change?
Do you have any contact with MMO? I'm asking, because I heard the software don't support rF2's soft lock request - the sim soft locks wheel range to the selected car and that seems to not work with OSW.
 
LesiU said:
Good news then! Thanks for the heads up.

Can you tell, at some point there will be no need to use the Disco board (IONI will do both - driving servo and acting as FFB controller) or that won't change?
Do you have any contact with MMO? I'm asking, because I heard the software don't support rF2's soft lock request - the sim soft locks wheel range to the selected car and that seems to not work with OSW.
Click to expand...

Confim it doesn't work.
Not a big deal if you ask me, since I record MMOs profiles for any rF2 car with different filtering AND Steering lock.
Those profiles could be loaded/changed even during an rF2 session.
 
OK, good there's a work around for it. Still though, I think it would be better to handle it back to the sim.
 
[bb]UPDATE - TERO is running IONI Pro HC - 9 Dec 2015[/b]
Hey All,
Just had a nice email from Tero.

During this past weekend, Tero and Aki had a first test-run of their MMos DIY wheel - yeay, lots of good things to come!!

They were so eager, fitted a wheel-rim, albeit on a very nice hub Aki has quickly done on the inhouse machinery. The hardware is based on the Disco board, MMos FW and IONI Pro HC. The servo has a Sin/Cos encoder and a is a scary 36 Nm (peak) motor.

Tero-Test-Setup.jpg




Tero very quickly prototyped few ideas in firmware level (I can see a lot more of this coming very soon, I will follow up with another post, hopefully tonight, about recent discussions we had in Finland)

-Encoder output from IONI GPO pins routed to the Disco, this could give sin/cos resolution advantage to the Disco. However the first implementation has too much jitter in quadrature output which is pretty much negating the benefits - more work on this will be done

-Effects (spring, friction, damping, inertia) calculation ported to IONI. This immediately made an improvement over MMos, and will be fine-tuned
Tero is still not fully familiar with MMos' filter principles, but at least it's friction and inertia effects seemed a bit odd, he feels. Friction looks like "viscous damping" and inertia effect is very weird: at slow wheel speeds it resists movement, and at any higher speed it boosts it. However it may be, Tero will implement those functions directly to IONI to reduce latencies on those filters.

See Tero's video where he is testing his version, implemented directly on IONI:
https://youtu.be/KRt6gOg8Z3U

The reason why a lot of these effects and functions will move over to the IONI itself: If the simulator update rate is 60 or 120 Hz and all post processing is done on the IONI controller hardware, there should be no need for going above that update rate from USB. It should not make any difference in sending setpoints at 1kHz if it would just repeat same setpoint many times before the simulator gives a new value.

The above scenario of course only applies directly to the IONI. Of course, this is the fun-part of DIY DD FFB: We have a great drive-controller developer working very closely with the community, to improve and implement sim-specific functions directly onto the controller, to reduce latencies.

Tero will implement and test many things after our recent discussions, some will work, others won't, but the end result will be a very good and stable, low-cost powerful motor controller, which will allow you to select the motor of your choosing.

This here is a watershed moment for us, and we can expect rapid progress in this arena.

Will keep you posted with more.
Cheers,
Beano
 
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Thank you Spin, exactly the reason why I luv a wheel with high-torque. It is not for everyone, but if you want to emulate those cars, you need to get as close to 1:1 torque ratio as possible :)

Cheers,
Beano
 
Hi Beano, hows things-
Just lurking around forums and saw you here- great freaking project this. I am loving rf2 been racing here for the past 4 weeks - got the new encoder and switched to 20k in mmos and 5k in granite Sw. Felt the difference- dec20th is my 1 year anniversary since i start using osw- and its still running strong. Thanks to you and everyone in the community.
Peace
Marcus



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hey Marcus,
What a nice surprise :) It has been a while, hope all is well, Bud?

Yes, I am not that often here, I should visit a lot more as this is a very nice community with highly constructive feedback!

We should catch up and have a good chat, I miss you on our chats, would be great to see how things are. I have celebrated my MMos wheel a few months ago too, I cannot believe it is more than a year ago I started Bruteforce threads over at iRacing. How time flies, unbelievable.

Anyway, I am off to Tokyo and Seoul for a week, I will be in touch though via forums. Let's talk soon.

Take care!

Beano
 
Amazing dedication Beano[emoji4], I Know right time flies when you having fun, felt like yesterday I just finished the built.
Safe flight- safe travel bud. Give rf2 a go when you have spare time, I am honestly in love with its track and tyre dynamic especially in race.
Cheers,
Marcus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi, just got an OSW (small Mige + Ioni pro), the behavior is strange, FFB seems to be inverted, VERY strong and exiting pits is impossible, the car wants to turn the other way...
Is there any magic setting for rf2 ?
BTW the OSW is ok in iRacing and AC, but in GSCE and R3E no.. maybe because they all use directx input

cheers
Nicola
 
nikdek69 said:
Hi, just got an OSW (small Mige + Ioni pro), the behavior is strange, FFB seems to be inverted, VERY strong and exiting pits is impossible, the car wants to turn the other way...
Is there any magic setting for rf2 ?
BTW the OSW is ok in iRacing and AC, but in GSCE and R3E no.. maybe because they all use directx input

cheers
Nicola
Click to expand...

Make sure that in the [your ffb controller filename].json file you have this: "Steering effects strength" : -10000,
 
Beat me to it nicola- yup [emoji115] you need to invert the ffb and all is well after.
Marcus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I was talking to ollie and he says you only need the PSP-600-48 (600w, 48v) PSU to drive the LARGE MiGe to 27.9 Nm and 25A to the IONI Pro HC because the Discovery Shield capacitors actually hold a lot of reserve power so you only need a relatively small PSU... What do you guys think?
 
Hello pioneers,

What a great OSW DIY thread this is!

After reading this thread and below linked PDF file, I started my OSW DIY project although I'm a noob for this kind of HW area. I already ordered 1X IONI Pro HC kit and will order small MIGE(seems enough for me), Antek linear PSU(PS-6N50), DISCO board and etc.

http://boxthislap.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BuildGuideonProjectBruteForce.pdf

Actually I'm not familar with HW schematic but I got the idea how to wire and connect each other thanks to the detailed explanation and pictures. BTW I'm blocked at using external case. For the external case, I have a mind to use Coolermaster Elite 130 as it seems able to cover bigger linear PSU.

http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-itx-elite-series/elite130/

Reviewing this thread content, I got to know the following interfaces needs to be exposed for external connection on the case. In case of PC assembly, there is already pre-made connection plate in the mother board and I don't have to worry about it. But for this DIY, I need to make whole things.
1) Fuse
2) Main power switch
3) Power filter 10A
4) 2 * USB thru connector // Discovery board
5) D-SUB DB15 2ROW 15PIN // Motor encoder calbe
6) Industrial EStop
7) Motor power calbe 4PIN

Q1) First, I have no idea how to cover this empty back plate in the case. Normally PSU is located in upper side and main board's connectors are located in lower side. But I use linear PSU and no PC mother board is used in the DIY project. Firstly I need to know how to cover this back side(using what?) and start considering how to make interfaces for above list.
View attachment 18974

Q2) Once back side cover is prepared, need to make holls for 1),2),3) and 4) maybe via drilling. If Q1 is resolved, I think I can make this happen although I don't have skillful hands.

Q3) For the D-SUB 15 pin connection, I find somethig like below but it is not for 15pin(2row) and I couldn't find similar one for the 15 pin. Anybody knows if there is this kind of product(or just bracket) for 15pin(2row)?
View attachment 18973

Q4) I don't have idea what can be used for industial Estop interface and motor power connection using 4 pins on the case.

As of now, I know the concept of the connection. But I'm a little blocked at finding and selecting interface connectors. Any of your suggestion, guidence or help would be very very appreciated. I'd like to make the back side of the case like something like neat below(captured from MarcusHwang's blog).
View attachment 18972

Thanks for reading.

EDIT:
I see that DISCO board and IONI don't have holes for attachment. I found board edge mounting kit which makes these boards can be attached to plate. But in the case, I also have no idea how these can be attached. I'd like to know or to see how to attach them to the case and how layout in the case.
 
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Spinelli said:
I was talking to ollie and he says you only need the PSP-600-48 (600w, 48v) PSU to drive the LARGE MiGe to 27.9 Nm and 25A to the IONI Pro HC because the Discovery Shield capacitors actually hold a lot of reserve power so you only need a relatively small PSU... What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

IMHO a better option would be to buy a 800W/1000W Linear Power supply from Antek.
AnTekinc
 
Why not just buying the PSU which is proven to work and avoid the unnecessary fuss about will the smaller voltage PSU work or not. Go with the one that is used in most kits and have no stress about it.
 
Because I'm buying off Ollie has he has been fantastic with me and I feel he deserves my money...
 
softslider said:
Hello pioneers,

Q1) First, I have no idea how to cover this empty back plate in the case. Normally PSU is located in upper side and main board's connectors are located in lower side. But I use linear PSU and no PC mother board is used in the DIY project. Firstly I need to know how to cover this back side(using what?) and start considering how to make interfaces for above list.

Q2) Once back side cover is prepared, need to make holls for 1),2),3) and 4) maybe via drilling. If Q1 is resolved, I think I can make this happen although I don't have skillful hands.

Q3) For the D-SUB 15 pin connection, I find somethig like below but it is not for 15pin(2row) and I couldn't find similar one for the 15 pin. Anybody knows if there is this kind of product(or just bracket) for 15pin(2row)?

Q4) I don't have idea what can be used for industial Estop interface and motor power connection using 4 pins on the case.

EDIT:
I see that DISCO board and IONI don't have holes for attachment. I found board edge mounting kit which makes these boards can be attached to plate. But in the case, I also have no idea how these can be attached. I'd like to know or to see how to attach them to the case and how layout in the case.
Click to expand...

Since earlier questions, I did some web searching and found some answers by myself.

Q1,Q2) I found acrylic plate 5T can be used with laser cutting for the back panel.

Q3) I've spent huge time finding the port bracket but failed. Any good suggestion?

Q4) For the motor power and ESTOP, I decided to use Neutrik 4pole/3pole connectos. The reason for 2 different types is to avoid any mis-plug-in.

If there is OSW owner with CoolerMaster Elite 130 case, it would be very helpful to share how to layout each component and wire in the case.
Maybe someone can show very nice layout also considering EMI.

I just get to have one more noob question. I have IONI HC drive which is different than IONI PRO explained here.
In this case, can I use same schematic for wiring? Maybe just FW is different. Correct?
 
Any news from Granite Devices?

btw. could someone explain me, how it is, than ARGON sends AC current to motors, while IONI sends DC current?
 
LesiU said:
Any news from Granite Devices?

btw. could someone explain me, how it is, than ARGON sends AC current to motors, while IONI sends DC current?
Click to expand...


Since MIGE is an AC servo motor, output from both Argon AND Ioni to electric motor is tri-phase AC with variable frequency and voltage.
Input is different, with Argon you don't need an external DC Power supply because it is embedded.
So you can feed Argon with 220AC but IONI needs DC.
 
In the tech spec. for IONI Pro HC I only see:
- Motor voltage rating 12-60 VDC
- Motor current rating 0.2 – 23A

No mention about AC motor voltage, while for ARGON drive you have:
- Integrated AC mains power supply: single phase 85 – 264 VAC 50/60 Hz, 0 – 16 A

If IONI in fact can output AC voltage to drive an AC motor, why there's not a single word mentioned about that?

Of course, I sent the question to the manufacturer over a month ago and never got any reply from them.
 
LesiU said:
In the tech spec. for IONI Pro HC I only see:
- Motor voltage rating 12-60 VDC
- Motor current rating 0.2 – 23A

No mention about AC motor voltage, while for ARGON drive you have:
- Integrated AC mains power supply: single phase 85 – 264 VAC 50/60 Hz, 0 – 16 A

If IONI in fact can output AC voltage to drive an AC motor, why there's not a single word mentioned about that?

Of course, I sent the question to the manufacturer over a month ago and never got any reply from them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever...that voltage rating is for BLDC or Stepper.
For IONI specs pls refer to this:http://granitedevices.com/wiki/IONI_specifications

As a matter of fact if you feed MIGE (and Lenze and Kollmorgen) with DC it wont run, since it is an AC motor it needs a "rotating electromagnetic field" to rotate, and you can have that only if you feed it with AC current.
 
Yes, I was using that site... if you actually look into it, you won't find any information about AC voltage rating.
 
LesiU said:
Yes, I was using that site... if you actually look into it, you won't find any information about AC voltage rating.
Click to expand...

In the "Motor Output" section, the line "Maximum effective motor phase output voltage" reads : "3-phase AC motors: Vsupply*0.775 V RMS (phase-to-phase)"

So in our case (48V DC power supply) the IONI will feed the MIGE with 3-phase @37.2 VAC RMS max.
Voltage is modulated from 0 to 37,2V in order to feed the necessary current to obtain the requested torque.
Modulation of rotational speed is obtained through frequency variations.
 
OK, that's what I couldn't grasp - that "Vsupply", which I was expecting to be as AC output voltage rating provided somewhere, is actually DC input. Thanks for explanation.
 
Hi all

I've embarked on the journey to build an instance of the OSW using the IONI Pro drive, "Small" MiGe Servo motor and STM32F4Disco controller as well as the wireless wheel buttons side project (nrf51822 BT modules).

An enormous thanks to Beano MMos, Martin Ascher (and many others) for the selfless hours and effort put in to aid commoners like me to stand a chance at successfully completing this project.
 
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softslider said:
Since earlier questions, I did some web searching and found some answers by myself.

Q1,Q2) I found acrylic plate 5T can be used with laser cutting for the back panel.

Q3) I've spent huge time finding the port bracket but failed. Any good suggestion?

Q4) For the motor power and ESTOP, I decided to use Neutrik 4pole/3pole connectos. The reason for 2 different types is to avoid any mis-plug-in.

If there is OSW owner with CoolerMaster Elite 130 case, it would be very helpful to share how to layout each component and wire in the case.
Maybe someone can show very nice layout also considering EMI.

I just get to have one more noob question. I have IONI HC drive which is different than IONI PRO explained here.
In this case, can I use same schematic for wiring? Maybe just FW is different. Correct?
Click to expand...

There's so much info on the iRacing forums it's worth being a member just while you do your build.


View attachment 19172View attachment 19173View attachment 19174View attachment 19175
 
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Hi cookie,

Thanks for the pictures. They are definitely helpful. As you suggested, I'll consider being a iracing member for the moment.
 
Spinelli said:
Because I'm buying off Ollie has he has been fantastic with me and I feel he deserves my money...
Click to expand...

Yesterday is arrived mine osw from Ollie, simply perfect! The shipment is arrived in 2 boxes and everything was very tidy and sealed.

So, after dinner, I started to mount this beast, and about midnight everything was ready.
I only tested for about 10 laps but it's another world compared to my "old" t500.
 
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