clockit
Something I discovered today, rFactor works with negative rolling resistance value in the TBC and the results are very similar to raising the track resistance in the TDF.
T
Some time ago I got replay from ISI about that. They said that in the end, everything is about having final effect spot on... but I think, it would be better if they do some research about surface ressistance and provide more or less correct values already in default tracks we will have in rFactor 2. With real world data about road cars aero and performance relativelly easy accessable, there is not that hard to get the values done right. Problem starts, when someone is doing straight line tests on a track with ressistance=0. Will have timings way off better than expected (with proper tyre rolling ressistance and car's mechanical friction) and starts to wondering, wtf? ;-)
Not neccesary! You have to do some sort of convertion from rF 1 to rF 2 none the less. Changing surface resistance is a matter of changing few parameters in tdf from 0 to different value.
I understand the ClutchFriction simulates both the clutch and tranny friction. Friction in the differential can be modeled in the appropriate wheel's FrictionTorque. I would think you could model drivetrain inertia by including it in the ClutchInertia parameter.
Ok I had to see for myself how effective it is. I made a straight track for 2km and drove it.
Resistance=0.0 - Feels like normal.
Resistance=2500.0 - I can feel it pulling me back, found it hard to accel in 6th gear. Very unrealistic to me tbh. Felt like I was driving my old Datsun 200b up a hill.
Resistance=200000.0 - I cant move.
But, you completely lost me with your last post.
It is as it says - how resistive the material is against an object, when you want to move through it (or on it, whatever).
You can't move out of sand because you are digged into it and sand is loose, so you have no grip. With resistance parameter, you emulate that behaviour (because rF can't simulate loose surfaces).
If you have reasonable explanation (because it looks, ISI don't have one) why properly done mods, with proper values for engine, aero and mechanical drag and inertia, are way too fast with surface resistance set to 0 then I maybe agree with you (but then, what about what Mirrza have measured at Brno racetrack? ). Until that, sorry![]()
But who cares about AI performance? With one parameter, I can make AI beeing much slower or faster, but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about![]()
Difference between 0 and 100 is very small. too small to feel anything.
By default we racing using 0. In relation to our knowledge, correct values should be about 2500 (2250-2750 on Brno circuit due to tarmac age). And even with 2500 set, the difference is very small. It is noticeable in telemetry (for example max speed). Also with RFFB I can feel weight of a car better (but it is more subjective)
I believe for dirt resistance may be greater. Maybe some about 6000 or so (have no data for it)
But if I put 2500 on tarmac my car will go out of track if I touch one ripple with fake bumps...
one thing that I don't like is the fact that the car is stopped in neutral in the middle of a slope with fairly inclination... that is really uncomfortable, Rfactor course not made to go with the car standing in the middle of the steep slopes of the circuits, but is an indication that something is not right.
thanks for the info and for reply... I need to know more things about materials before let it as done, but i´m afraid there is not much info.
Another parameter that seems wrong in the tdf file is CollFrict
Why would the collisionfriction be higher on grass than on pavement.
The standard tdf file lists it as follows:
road >> CollFrict=0.4
gras >> CollFrict=0.8
This seems very wrong.
In rFactor he'd stay on the roof for many more laps and finish the race like thatI'm not sure what exactly is the source of the problem but I often get bored waiting till the car stops 'skating' on its roof (it won't get 'turned over' until it stops).
@Johannes Rojola
If you wanted to simulate how a car digs into grass you would use the sink= parameter in the tdf file rather than the friction parameter.
No, I think they have this wrong.
Grass is slippery and has less friction against rubber than asphalt.
and grass should not be smooth if the track modder has correctly used the tdf bump parameters:
BumpAmp=
BumpWavelen=
or has added bumps to his grass mesh.
Why you are more concerned with how body parts slide on a surface, than how tires interact is really puzzling.
Why would the collisionfriction be higher on grass than on pavement.
The standard tdf file lists it as follows:
road >> CollFrict=0.4
gras >> CollFrict=0.8
This seems very wrong.
Mmhhh, that´s strange!
I´ve played with the resistance in .TDF alot and AI is definitely affected!
I can measure it!
Can´t explain that. Maybe only positive values affects the AI?
Greets
Pete
// Smooth oval track (this feedback is first so terrains pick up this material match first)
[FEEDBACK]
Dry=RoadDryGrip Wet=RoadWetGrip Resistance=1000.0 BumpAmp=0.001 BumpWavelen=RoadBumpLen Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sound=dry
Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=smokewhite.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.0,1.0,1.0) Growth=(4.0,3.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(2.0,0.2,3.5) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.3,0.05,0.6) Growth=(0.3,0.3,0.6) GrowthVel=(0.08,0.09,0.30) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=80.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.05,0.07,0.90) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Materials=roada,roadb,rdaxroa
// Roads
[FEEDBACK]
Dry=RoadDryGrip Wet=RoadWetGrip Resistance=1000.0 BumpAmp=RoadBumpAmp BumpWavelen=RoadBumpLen Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sound=dry
Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=smokewhite.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.0,1.0,1.0) Growth=(4.0,3.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(2.0,0.2,3.5) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.3,0.05,0.6) Growth=(0.3,0.3,0.6) GrowthVel=(0.08,0.09,0.30) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=80.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.05,0.07,0.90) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Materials=road
// Smooth oval track (this feedback is first so terrains pick up this material match first)
[FEEDBACK]
Dry=RoadDryGrip Wet=RoadWetGrip Resistance=0.0 BumpAmp=0.001 BumpWavelen=RoadBumpLen Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sound=dry
Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=smokewhite.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.0,1.0,1.0) Growth=(4.0,3.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(2.0,0.2,3.5) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.3,0.05,0.6) Growth=(0.3,0.3,0.6) GrowthVel=(0.08,0.09,0.30) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=80.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.05,0.07,0.90) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Materials=roada,roadb,rdaxroa
// Roads
[FEEDBACK]
Dry=RoadDryGrip Wet=RoadWetGrip Resistance=0.0 BumpAmp=RoadBumpAmp BumpWavelen=RoadBumpLen Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sound=dry
Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=smokewhite.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.0,1.0,1.0) Growth=(4.0,3.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(2.0,0.2,3.5) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
//Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.3,0.05,0.6) Growth=(0.3,0.3,0.6) GrowthVel=(0.08,0.09,0.30) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=80.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.05,0.07,0.90) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
Materials=road
Because you questioned why CollFriction is set how it is. CollFriction has nothing to do with tires, it defines how other body parts deal with terrain collisions. That usually happens when you crash your car in the ditch or do rollover crash like in the video I posted.
Mh, in PLR file there´s something that says:
[ Game Options ]
AI Tire Model="1.00000" // 0.0 = use AI peak slip, 1.0 = use player's dynamic slip, or a blend between the two (can be overrode in TBC with AITireModel)
Maybe something to do with this one...
Is the result the same with all mods?
Greets
Pete
OK davidde, please report!
Greets
Pete