Saabjock
Hoping the best for jules after a collision with the crane removing Sutil's stricken car at Suzuka GP.
TIG_green
sg333
Hope he recovers; a truly senseless accident that shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
Valter Cardoso
redapg
Yes a terrible and very very unlucky accident. I hope he will fully recover.
F1 2004
L'Equipe is reporting that Bianchi's surgery is over and he is not under respiratory assistance.
Valter Cardoso
roll hoop? Airbox? That head should had been hit very hard sadly...
sg333
Not very classy to post that picture, Valter 
redapg
Good News so far.
tjc
BBC are reporting Bianchi is out of surgery and breathing on his own in ICU.
Wish the best for him.
Wish the best for him.
Saabjock
The belts would allow very little movement so his head probably took the brunt of the impact.
Hope he recovers fully with no lasting effects.
I especially hate seeing these kind of accident because the driver is 'along for the ride' and powerless.
Hope he recovers fully with no lasting effects.
I especially hate seeing these kind of accident because the driver is 'along for the ride' and powerless.
Last edited:
hexagramme
I will start by saying that I really hope and wish for the very best, both for Jules Bianchi and his family. I am deeply saddened by this tragic event. I fear the worst but I hope for the best. I can only think that Bianchi is in the very best hands.
I was literally sick to my stomach and had a really intense physical reaction (shaking hands, cold sweat) when I saw the immediate aftermath of the accident yesterday during the race. My heart was racing.
The crane, the smoke behind it, the tiny glimpse of demolished pieces of the car near the crane… The track workers’ urgent hand signaling. All in all it looked like the worst had happened. The sight of the medical car rapidly overtaking the safety car and making its way up to the Dunlop curve made me grab my head in despair. It could only mean something very bad had happened.
I was literally numb for the rest of the evening, couldn’t sleep and had that chilling image of the dark and damp crash site burned in my head. Still do. One of the worst scenes I’ve seen in the 15+ years I’ve followed Formula One and, racing in general. Watching the accidents of Greg Moore in 1999, Kubica in 2007, Massa in 2009 and Dan Wheldon in 2011 I had the same horrible feeling.
Of course, the grim memory of what happened to poor Maria de Villotta comes to mind. I can’t even bear to think about what the guys at Marussia are going through right now. I was devastated to hear Ted Kravitz reporting on how they desperately tried to gain access to the medical center right after Bianchi was brought there.
As always in these kinds of situations I try to find some consolation in Gary Hartstein’s written pieces on his blog. His down to earth and extremely knowledgeable way of explaining the ins and outs of these types of situations usually makes it easier to cope for me. No-nonsensical and founded in deep expertise in that area. This time though he doesn’t seem all that optimistic which worries me.
The first reports that Bianchi was actually breathing on his own were very encouraging. To hear this morning that the opposite is the case and that he’s actually on a respirator is very saddening.
I really hope some good news will surface soon…. Can’t believe how ugly this sport can be sometimes.
I was literally sick to my stomach and had a really intense physical reaction (shaking hands, cold sweat) when I saw the immediate aftermath of the accident yesterday during the race. My heart was racing.
The crane, the smoke behind it, the tiny glimpse of demolished pieces of the car near the crane… The track workers’ urgent hand signaling. All in all it looked like the worst had happened. The sight of the medical car rapidly overtaking the safety car and making its way up to the Dunlop curve made me grab my head in despair. It could only mean something very bad had happened.
I was literally numb for the rest of the evening, couldn’t sleep and had that chilling image of the dark and damp crash site burned in my head. Still do. One of the worst scenes I’ve seen in the 15+ years I’ve followed Formula One and, racing in general. Watching the accidents of Greg Moore in 1999, Kubica in 2007, Massa in 2009 and Dan Wheldon in 2011 I had the same horrible feeling.
Of course, the grim memory of what happened to poor Maria de Villotta comes to mind. I can’t even bear to think about what the guys at Marussia are going through right now. I was devastated to hear Ted Kravitz reporting on how they desperately tried to gain access to the medical center right after Bianchi was brought there.
As always in these kinds of situations I try to find some consolation in Gary Hartstein’s written pieces on his blog. His down to earth and extremely knowledgeable way of explaining the ins and outs of these types of situations usually makes it easier to cope for me. No-nonsensical and founded in deep expertise in that area. This time though he doesn’t seem all that optimistic which worries me.
The first reports that Bianchi was actually breathing on his own were very encouraging. To hear this morning that the opposite is the case and that he’s actually on a respirator is very saddening.
I really hope some good news will surface soon…. Can’t believe how ugly this sport can be sometimes.
Bjørn
I wish Formula One wasn't a kindergarten when it's raining... I too, wish Formula One drivers would persue being on the right tires for the conditions more... Inters were clearly not up for the job at the end. Oh and calm the f*ck down with double waved yellows, especially when you're on an insufficient tire compound!
That said, I hope Bianchi will recover fully.
That said, I hope Bianchi will recover fully.
hexagramme
Who said that Bianchi could actually see the waved yellow flags..?
In the darkness with rain spray all over..? I for one don't think he could.
He went off at around 220 kph, a speed he wouldn't have driven had he seen the flags.
Maybe he only saw the flags too late because of the poor visibility.
Maybe his lift off the throttle or dab on the brakes contributed to the car going off.
Just saying.
Tuttle
It's very easy to solve; for wet races just deploy the Safety Car B E F O R E deploy any further heavy rescue truck or telehandler. It's easy to understand if a car spun off and crash in a corner for the wet condition, someone else would have done the same soon. Do you remember Nurburgring 2007? Flags are not enough no, especially in a such awful visbility condition. Not saying to do exactly the same as US series, but as it is now it's just ridiculous. Infinite kindergarten to start the race under rain and then you let a huge crushproof telehandler playing around a crash trap. Meh.
Tuttle
The marshal on the top scaffold in there was waving a green flag, then a rescue guy on the ground screamed something and he switched to yellow. That mess under heavy rain, with the telehandler in there, the Sutil Sauber and the Bianchi Marussia.
hexagramme
It's a complete travesty what happened... It really is. I cannot believe it to be honest.
And yes... I most definitely remember Nürburgring 2007. I don't remember who it was, maybe Sutil, who skated off due to aquaplaning before turn 1 and actually hit the crane, although very lightly.
Had the safety car (nearly stationary in the hairpin waiting for the leaders) not moved out of the way, the spinning race car would have hit it hard.
Tuttle
Liuzzi. Very lucky.
hexagramme
From Sutil went off at the Dunlop curve until Bianchi went off, nearly two minutes passed.
Wasn't that enough time for race control to deploy the SC? Couldn't RC see the huge amount of spray and downpour on their monitors?
Didn't they know that most of the drivers were struggling around on the wrong tire compound and furthermore couldn't see anything around them?
Wasn't that enough time for race control to deploy the SC? Couldn't RC see the huge amount of spray and downpour on their monitors?
Didn't they know that most of the drivers were struggling around on the wrong tire compound and furthermore couldn't see anything around them?
Tim Wheatley
Side impact, with helmet damaged.
Tim Wheatley
Didn't they learn from 1994, EXACTLY the same turn and EXACTLY the same incident with Brundle running down a marshall when he went off there after another car?
hexagramme
That was such a nasty incident... It actually popped into my mind the same instant I saw where Sutil had crashed.
Obviously Martin Brundle was thinking the same yesterday during the broadcast. The seriousness in his voice was quite chilling.
Saabjock
Thanks Tim...got that later.
It's never good to see any accident in F1. This kind is most disturbing when the helmet is damaged to that extent.
You know that even with HANS his upper body also took an enormous blow.
Like Hexagramme, I was very anxious after they spoke of the collision...glad it was not actually shown.
I usually feel a sense of relief when I see a driver climb out of a stricken car.
hexagramme
It's weird how used we are to seeing the driver climb out of wrecked car... It's great that it's the norm nowadays, but contrary it's that much more worrying when he doesn't climb out unaided. You just know it has to be extraordinarily bad, when the cars are so safe.
Some are reporting that Bianchi had to be cut out of the car. Some pictures show a partly intact roll bar (the one where you can see the "E" being partly intact). Others show the roll bar having been ripped off completely. This is confusing.
No matter what it's simply awful that it was his head that took the main blow. Appearently he lost the car at aprox. 220 kph. Don't know if the car went 360 before he hit the crane, or if the car just went in sideways. One picture shows the car going a bit sideways through the gravel 1 or 2 secs before impact.
bwana
some damage to right side of the marussia may indicate a spinning glance off the safer barrier prior to contact with the crane. ?? Thoughts with Jules..
hexagramme
I don't remember seeing damage to the safer barriers unfortunately. I think the damage on the side of the car comes directly from the impact with the crane.
bwana
Just watched the video , Not good at all .straight in minimal side impact and green flags being waved. (video on F1Today site)
(video on F1Today site)hexagramme
Just watched the video , Not good at all .straight in minimal side impact and green flags being waved.
Just saw the video. Complete and utter horror...
Can't believe how hard he hit the crane. Much worse than I imagined it to be.
Saabjock
Just watched the video , Not good at all .straight in minimal side impact and green flags being waved.
The impact is far, far worst than I thought initially.
His car moved the entire mover as it went through the barrier.
That's a lot of energy. those things weigh quite a bit.
Initial point of contact seems to be the left side.
Damage to his helmet could have come from a secondary impact.
While not blaming any one...obviously the marshals were not well trained in this instance or were very confused.
They were waiving the green flag for the bulk of the Sauber's removal and were still waving it, even after the Marussia's impact with the mover.
That needs to be addressed for future races.
Last edited:
Tuttle
Hope my calculations are wrong but I get an awful 50 to 56g force impact, considering the head point, not the car.
hexagramme
No that's true, it doesn't make any sense pointing fingers right now (even though there are quite a few people to point them at).
All that matters in this moment is that Jules get through this in the best way possible.
I had really hoped that some of the speed and energy had gone before he hit the crane, maybe the car bouncing off the barrier first and then into the mover.
That video clip however is extremely disturbing and depressing...
The gravel at Suzuka is apparently very tightly mashed together, and when it's soaking wet I doubt that much speed has been taken out of the car at all.
I really, really hope you're wrong too...
I can't help but think back to de Villota's crash.
She was traveling no more than 50-65 kph (31-40 mph) when she hit the back of the truck.
Devastating consequences nonetheless.
All that matters in this moment is that Jules get through this in the best way possible.
I had really hoped that some of the speed and energy had gone before he hit the crane, maybe the car bouncing off the barrier first and then into the mover.
That video clip however is extremely disturbing and depressing...
The gravel at Suzuka is apparently very tightly mashed together, and when it's soaking wet I doubt that much speed has been taken out of the car at all.
I really, really hope you're wrong too...
I can't help but think back to de Villota's crash.
She was traveling no more than 50-65 kph (31-40 mph) when she hit the back of the truck.
Devastating consequences nonetheless.
hexagramme
BTW for those interested:
http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/
http://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/
Tuttle
Problem is I didnt see any major deceleration as the first part of the car just went under the telehandler back without deformation, apart suspension whisbones being disconnected (very weak points)...so most of the deceleration it's on the roll, which is structural...but unfortunately this piece is AFTER the driver head.
IF it is true the spun happened at 213Km/h the impact force applied to the driver body, considering the near to zero time of deceleration when the head hit the truck chassis, was VERY high.
Useless and maybe stupid speculation but this means to me everything but the worst will be a good news.
Bjørn
No fingers to point I think - except maybe the flag-mashall at flagpost 12...
It's just very unlucky...
Like Simonsen at Le Mans last year...
But there is stuff to be done to help prevent it...
I foremost would like to see something done towards the unhealthy stubborness when it comes to staying on a tyre which isn't really up for the job... Forcing full wet by Race Control or something... But that might become equally annoying as the waaaay too long safety car period at the beginning of the race too much nursing, kindergarten... But probably nowhere near as annoying since it's the same for everyone - and safer... The wet tire moves 40 more litres of water a sec compared to the inters... Would have been handy for both Sutil and Bianchi - 100%. Such regulation would though take out some of the gambling aspects and some of the amazing rewards we've seen through time... Donnington 93 or Spa 95 for example... Maybe it's too difficult to regulate, when they can't even figure out when it's perfectly (and has been for four laps) okay to get the SC the f*ck off the track and inters already is the prefered compound to be on...
Yellow flags being green sounds absurd and absolutely preposterous, sure that wasn't just one flag-marshall screwing up? I'm positive the section was still yellow, as in the flashers would flash yellow... And on TV it had yellow flag indication on the top, the lap counter.
Still it should be transmitted to the driver through the radio too, taking into account the possible poor visibility and maybe missing flag-posts/flashers... Nonetheless He went too fast for the circumstances...
The track-marshalls did extremely well... 30 more secs and the digger would have been behind the barrier... It's just extremely unfortunate turns of events really I think...
A crane would be nice to have there, especially taking 94 into consideration and even 2001 with Alesi and Kimi... It's an extremely exposed spot... Yeah... a crane would be really handy there, it is a confined space though.
Wrong place, wrong time, wrong tires.
It's just very unlucky...
Like Simonsen at Le Mans last year...
But there is stuff to be done to help prevent it...
I foremost would like to see something done towards the unhealthy stubborness when it comes to staying on a tyre which isn't really up for the job... Forcing full wet by Race Control or something... But that might become equally annoying as the waaaay too long safety car period at the beginning of the race too much nursing, kindergarten... But probably nowhere near as annoying since it's the same for everyone - and safer... The wet tire moves 40 more litres of water a sec compared to the inters... Would have been handy for both Sutil and Bianchi - 100%. Such regulation would though take out some of the gambling aspects and some of the amazing rewards we've seen through time... Donnington 93 or Spa 95 for example... Maybe it's too difficult to regulate, when they can't even figure out when it's perfectly (and has been for four laps) okay to get the SC the f*ck off the track and inters already is the prefered compound to be on...
Yellow flags being green sounds absurd and absolutely preposterous, sure that wasn't just one flag-marshall screwing up? I'm positive the section was still yellow, as in the flashers would flash yellow... And on TV it had yellow flag indication on the top, the lap counter.
Still it should be transmitted to the driver through the radio too, taking into account the possible poor visibility and maybe missing flag-posts/flashers... Nonetheless He went too fast for the circumstances...
The track-marshalls did extremely well... 30 more secs and the digger would have been behind the barrier... It's just extremely unfortunate turns of events really I think...
A crane would be nice to have there, especially taking 94 into consideration and even 2001 with Alesi and Kimi... It's an extremely exposed spot... Yeah... a crane would be really handy there, it is a confined space though.
Wrong place, wrong time, wrong tires.
Bjørn
Flag post 12 is behind the scene of the accident, actually... Less fingers...
kimikaze
Video of crash!
Dear God He lift about 8 ton, that just show how mush force was released.
[video]http://mirror.ninja/sc60[/video]
This explain a lot.
As for Green flags: "As for the green flag, folk seem to be getting in a muddle. The green flag is being waved to inform the drivers the track is clear from that marshalls point AFTER the crash and rightly so. The yellow flags for Sutils incident will be at the marshalls point BEFORE the crash so the drivers know to back off. Then they go past the incident, see the green and go flat out again."
Dear God
He lift about 8 ton, that just show how mush force was released.[video]http://mirror.ninja/sc60[/video]
This explain a lot.
As for Green flags: "As for the green flag, folk seem to be getting in a muddle. The green flag is being waved to inform the drivers the track is clear from that marshalls point AFTER the crash and rightly so. The yellow flags for Sutils incident will be at the marshalls point BEFORE the crash so the drivers know to back off. Then they go past the incident, see the green and go flat out again."
Last edited:
Saabjock
Anybody look closely at the telemetry for that car yet?
Is it possible he had a stuck throttle?
There does not seem to be any slowdown at all even that far off the track.
Regardless of the fact that it was wet, you'd get some slowing. Not much but some. He got none.
The close up video clearly shows his head hyper-extending to the right after he takes the initial impact from the vehicle as he goes under the mover.
I think the damage was done to his head on the right, as a result of his helmet contacting the chassis.
How he did not get decapitated is a huge mystery. He didn't just hit the corner...he went under the back of it.
It was such a violent crash that it picked the mover up and pushed the back towards the barrier causing the Sauber to drop off the sling.
Is it possible he had a stuck throttle?
There does not seem to be any slowdown at all even that far off the track.
Regardless of the fact that it was wet, you'd get some slowing. Not much but some. He got none.
The close up video clearly shows his head hyper-extending to the right after he takes the initial impact from the vehicle as he goes under the mover.
I think the damage was done to his head on the right, as a result of his helmet contacting the chassis.
How he did not get decapitated is a huge mystery. He didn't just hit the corner...he went under the back of it.
It was such a violent crash that it picked the mover up and pushed the back towards the barrier causing the Sauber to drop off the sling.
Tuttle
Modern Formula 1 has the seat VERY low inside the cockpit cell. The neck and half of the head are inside the cockpit (steering wheel axis) so the most exposed part it's the top of the cranium where, thanks God, the helmet should be pretty strong (apart the visor). Furthermore, if Bianchi were braking during the spun off, the body was even more compressed inside the cockpit due the G force.
Problem is, even without a straight impact, the deceleration was HUGE.
hexagramme
He did not have a stuck throttle. The live timing app shows him approaching the crash site accelerating up to 213 kph before going off. Some speed was scrubbed off before he hit, but not enough.
Eye witnesses say that he was close to losing the rear while turning left. He reacted by applying opposite lock immediately, which unfortunately turned into an overcorrection because the tires gripped again.
He was then a passenger, and the wet hard gravel did very little to slow down the car before impact.
And yeah, plenty of fingers to point... it's up to the race director to neutralize the race in case of a dangerous situation. Rain was coming down hard, while everyone was on the wrong tires. Sutil didn't just go off, he aquaplaned, probably because of standing water in that exact corner.
To think that it's unlikely or even a freak incident that another would go off soon after is beyond daft. Remember Interlagos 2003. I lost count of all the cars going off in turn 3. Schumacher was close to hitting the crane too.
So it can never be as simple as saying he was on the tyre and overdriving, never in a million years. My bet is that he didn't see the yellow flags, because the timing app shows him accelerating hard into the yellow zone. So does Ericsson who drove right behind him. The Marshalls were so far off the track in the Dunlop curve that I guess no one had a clue what was going on from the cockpit. Ericsson only slowed down after the crash site, which could mean he only then saw the flags.
Eye witnesses say that he was close to losing the rear while turning left. He reacted by applying opposite lock immediately, which unfortunately turned into an overcorrection because the tires gripped again.
He was then a passenger, and the wet hard gravel did very little to slow down the car before impact.
And yeah, plenty of fingers to point... it's up to the race director to neutralize the race in case of a dangerous situation. Rain was coming down hard, while everyone was on the wrong tires. Sutil didn't just go off, he aquaplaned, probably because of standing water in that exact corner.
To think that it's unlikely or even a freak incident that another would go off soon after is beyond daft. Remember Interlagos 2003. I lost count of all the cars going off in turn 3. Schumacher was close to hitting the crane too.
So it can never be as simple as saying he was on the tyre and overdriving, never in a million years. My bet is that he didn't see the yellow flags, because the timing app shows him accelerating hard into the yellow zone. So does Ericsson who drove right behind him. The Marshalls were so far off the track in the Dunlop curve that I guess no one had a clue what was going on from the cockpit. Ericsson only slowed down after the crash site, which could mean he only then saw the flags.
Last edited:
hexagramme
It seems the worst damage was done to the left side of the helmet, because that's the side that connected with the crane. The right side looks okay from the close up picture, the left side seems the opposite though it's hard to see.
Oh man, we really really need some good news soon.....