Opinions on Assetto Corsa Physics (1.4)

PearceYaussy

I think in v1.4 they took a turn in the "simcade" direction. I have noticed that some cars just have way more grip than they should (like the lotus 72) and are way too grippy under throttle (you can just floor it out of a hairpin and not spin out). Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels... (It really infuriates me to see someone set a WR with an XBOX controller :rolleyes:) That's how people have times in RSR that are 10-15 seconds faster than they should be, because if you really take advantage of the unrealistic physics you can FLY. If you drive in a realistic manner, you have no chance.

I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
 
InBeforeTheLock1105.jpg
 
PearceYaussy said:
I think in v1.4 they took a turn in the "simcade" direction. I have noticed that some cars just have way more grip than they should (like the lotus 72) and are way too grippy under throttle (you can just floor it out of a hairpin and not spin out). Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels... (It really infuriates me to see someone set a WR with an XBOX controller :rolleyes:) That's how people have times in RSR that are 10-15 seconds faster than they should be, because if you really take advantage of the unrealistic physics you can FLY. If you drive in a realistic manner, you have no chance.

I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
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http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/assetto-corsa-2015-and-beyond.115468/

Explain to me how a sim gets highest ratings ever from apparent knowledgeable experts , then has four major updates including physics and Ai

:p


They going to release another 40 cars, 3 more DLC probably ?

Won't make it drive any better. lol ;)


Will Mazeo said:
Oh please not this again....
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lool ;)



You know the funny thing in all these compares this VS this .................I have never ever heard a single one of you explain "what you feel".

It all comes down to quoting statements, some data, comparing laptimes or stuff like it's too dear or it looks better.


Where are all the "seat of the pants" observations............ the attitude, interia, chassis, tyres
 
DurgeDriven said:
Explain to me how a sim gets highest ratings ever from apparent knowledgeable experts , then has four major updates including physics and Ai
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At that time, it felt pretty damn good. Problem was, the average idiot couldn't drive it, so they had to make it easier to keep up sales. On top of that, they charge more for DLC... It's all about MONEY and PROFIT these days. Money trumps all else.

DurgeDriven said:
You know the funny thing in all these compares this VS this .................I have never ever heard a single one of you explain "what you feel".

It all comes down to quoting statements, some data, comparing laptimes or stuff like it's too dear or it looks better..
Click to expand...

Well, if the average gamer using an XBOX 360 controller can match real life professional drivers, then it must be accurate, right? Jesus.

I have to say ISI, thank you for putting big profits aside to give us one of the few authentic racing experiences out there. It's a rare thing these days. :p

"Kunos Simulazioni" or "Kunos Porticato"? LOL
 
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DurgeDriven said:
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/assetto-corsa-2015-and-beyond.115468/

Explain to me how a sim gets highest ratings ever from apparent knowledgeable experts , then has four major updates including physics and Ai
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iRacing is on version 6 of their tire model, doesn't make it "not sim". Progression is normal and expected as the devs learn more.

PearceYaussy said:
I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
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I'm not sure which version you are comparing to. One thing I suggest is to never use "Optimal" road grip as it represents some fantasy ideal conditions apparently. FFB has steadily improved from v1.0 to v1.4, it doesn't have ridiculous strength self-centering anymore and feels pretty good most of the time. Physics I would say are on average moving to right direction, cars with v6 tire model you can feel the cold tire effect etc. (some cars are still on v4 tire model, I think the Lotus is one of those). Still not as good physics as in rF2 or iRacing but better than pCars and R3E imo.
 
Don't confuse car or game physics with tire properties values, or the tire model in itself. The significant changes we've seen thus far since 1.3 and 1.4 were about tires, not about car/game physics.
 
DurgeDriven said:
Explain to me how a sim gets highest ratings ever from apparent knowledgeable experts , then has four major updates including physics and Ai
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I'd have hated to have seen rF2 not receive any more updates since April 2013.


DurgeDriven said:
You know the funny thing in all these compares this VS this .................I have never ever heard a single one of you explain "what you feel".

It all comes down to quoting statements, some data, comparing laptimes or stuff like it's too dear or it looks better.

Where are all the "seat of the pants" observations............ the attitude, interia, chassis, tyres
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That's exactly how Kunos was advertising Assetto Corsa. They had journalists drive real cars and drive the game. Folks wouldn't shut up about feel.


QUF said:
Don't confuse car or game physics with tire properties values, or the tire model in itself. The significant changes we've seen thus far since 1.3 and 1.4 were about tires, not about car/game physics.
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Exactly. Plus the way the FFB communicates the car to us. That is not to say the game isn't without fault, as it still has missing core elements that are bugging certain modders and users.
 
Guimengo said:
Exactly. Plus the way the FFB communicates the car to us. That is not to say the game isn't without fault, as it still has missing core elements that are bugging certain modders and users.
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Which core elements missing? Mainly what I've seen them talking about is tires and I don't think devs have stopped working on them, so will see more in future updates. About the camber thing, is still unclear, from the certain modders recent posts seems they don't know well if something is incorrect or not.

PearceYaussy said:
Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels...
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And can you go faster the more you turn the wheel compared to turning the right amount of degrees? Some video/data example? On which cars you tried that? What should happen to the car if you force to turn the steering wheel a lot, like full lock, the car should flip? Have you tried to turn the steering wheel full lock on a GT3 car vs Audi Quattro, what do you feel? Have you tried to do the same in other sims and which specific results you got?
 
There are (rear) aero forces and their affect on the car (and how the modders must alter the functionality so the behavior is correct), the issue with the game not supporting very stiff suspensions, a few more (lurk in the forum about feedback to Kunos and you'll see a bunch of things from a couple of top-notch folks), and lo and behold...... missing documentation.

On the user side, we still have tuning options present in nKp that are missing in AC. Not having brake pressure drives me mad.
 
Guimengo said:
On the user side, we still have tuning options present in nKp that are missing in AC. Not having brake pressure drives me mad.
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Can't believe I've missed that, missing brake temps annoyed me enough
 
Which car in AC official/mod needs very stiff suspension and is not working? I remember before when putting very high frequency in setup for lotus exos that it would shake. I just tried and seems normal.
 
Why is this topic being discussed here ? Really. Why ? . You will get a lot more responses on the AC forums if there us such a thing. Don't think the majority of rF2 users either have tried it or if they have really give a toss.
 
PearceYaussy said:
I think in v1.4 they took a turn in the "simcade" direction. I have noticed that some cars just have way more grip than they should (like the lotus 72) and are way too grippy under throttle (you can just floor it out of a hairpin and not spin out). Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels... (It really infuriates me to see someone set a WR with an XBOX controller :rolleyes:) That's how people have times in RSR that are 10-15 seconds faster than they should be, because if you really take advantage of the unrealistic physics you can FLY. If you drive in a realistic manner, you have no chance.

I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
Click to expand...

image.png
 
Well, i can appreciate that people enjoy AC, and since ive been hating physics in AC since i first tried it, it kept making me think why is there so many people who defend ACs physics and FFB. Despite the fact that i saw some youtube videos where somebody was doing some physics tests and AC came out badly short, i kept thinking why is my experience with this game so much worse than seemingly most of the other people's? So what did i do wrong. Is my T500 set up wrong in the game? Does nobody mind that you have to go back to main menu to change any game settings including controls? Does nobody mind the terrible vibration FFB whenever you lock up or spin the tires that feels like its an impulse only designed to do "Heyy! You are doing it wrong!!" Or do you not have that vibration? Cuz thats the one that makes me feel like its meant for a PS4 controller not a Steering wheel. Why are those cars so non progressive and extremely linear? The strange swinginnes to road cars?
The only force feedback i really enjoyed is with the first few FWD cars. So what did i do wrong that my experience with AC is so bad that i basically ignore its existence by not considering it sim at all?
 
I'm quicker with a controller versus G27/G29 wheel; however it not make the game better as the immersion is diluted somewhat.

I go through fazes whereby I play one sim e.g. AC v1.4 came out I was all over it.......flat 6 came out, RF2 got reinstalled via Steam post seeing the progression via an EB YT video.

Just waiting on Pcars to eventually catch up and would really enjoy playing that again.

Iracing, well not enough time to devote so unfortunately cannot justify a subscription.

RF2 currently is top of the pecking order.....I just wish that it would play better on my laptop that has hardware that did not even exist at it's exception. It's a bit like FSX haha in this regard.

Back on topic, what you have to remember is how many of you have driven a fully fledged race car to truely know how the physics should be represented in a game. I can only speculate in this regard and merely enjoy being a spectator at the BTCC events!!
 
PearceYaussy said:
I think in v1.4 they took a turn in the "simcade" direction. I have noticed that some cars just have way more grip than they should (like the lotus 72) and are way too grippy under throttle (you can just floor it out of a hairpin and not spin out). Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels... (It really infuriates me to see someone set a WR with an XBOX controller :rolleyes:) That's how people have times in RSR that are 10-15 seconds faster than they should be, because if you really take advantage of the unrealistic physics you can FLY. If you drive in a realistic manner, you have no chance.

I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, are you trolling? So... you don't like AC, you should stop playing it I presume? You like rFactor 2 more, you should play more rFactor 2?
Also, how much grip should the Lotus 72 have?

I struggle to see your problem. Are you afraid rFactor 2 will end because AC... what, exists? Because I don't think it will.
 
Gevatter said:
I struggle to see your problem. Are you afraid rFactor 2 will end because AC... what, exists? Because I don't think it will.
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Actually that's exactly what I'm worried about... Not many mods being done for rF2 because most of the rF1 Modders have switched to AC. No online activity in rF2 because everyone has gone over to AC...........
 
Gevatter said:
I'm sorry, are you trolling? So... you don't like AC, you should stop playing it I presume? You like rFactor 2 more, you should play more rFactor 2?
Also, how much grip should the Lotus 72 have?

I struggle to see your problem. Are you afraid rFactor 2 will end because AC... what, exists? Because I don't think it will.
Click to expand...

^This
 
Copy paste from racedepartment

Assetto Corsa is in my opinion one of the best things happening in sim racing since a very long time 'cause it combines great graphics and car selection with a clever approach to physics modeling.

In particular the tire simulation is controlled with a few parameters accessible by the final users but it's still able to reproduce reality in a very credible manner thanks to the quite complex model chewing them.

Some of the AC builds have been truly gorgeous in terms of driving feel with a wonderful balance between accessibility (cars are easy to drive below the limit) and punishment (near and over the limit, no matter the available grip, all cars become nasty).

From build 1.3 we gained some important improvement in tire physiscs regarding load sensitivity (finally flat out Eau Rouge - Radillon is a real challenge for Gt3 cars even if for one year this was labeled as 'NO ISSUE'), but we completely lost any drama in carefully managing the throttle or controlling low and high speed oversteer.

Good drivers are still rewarded but misbehavior is just causing bad lap times with no virtual 'danger'.

The yaw rotation seems to be dampened and too forgiving.

It's correct to make things a bit easier in a simulation 'cause most of the crucial feedback needed to control a car are missing (linear and rotational accelerations) and even the best rigs introduces some significant lag, but at the moment IMHO AC has gone too far.

It would be interesting to know what has been changed in the core (and in the tire parameters) between 1.2.x and 1.3.x regarding the following aspects:
- yaw motion equations
- combined grip equations
- grip vs slip curves calculations (both longitudinal and lateral)
- tire relaxation length and its dependency on load

This product could truly dominate the market for both casual and hardcore sim-drivers, but at the moment it's apparently drifting toward the 'too easy' path.

It's perfectly understandable 'cause in this way it can attract more customers and have more funds for the next developments but IMHO it should give us the possibility to come back to the previous car behavior maintaining all the recent improvement introduced.

This would be an ideal win-win situation achievable by exposing just a few more parameters about tire dynamics and a bit of telemetry channels (mainly tires lateral and longitudinal forces).

At the moment I'm using an old 1.2.5 and, beside all its flaws, it's much more entertaining and similar to my real track and road driving experience than the latest AC versions...

Even project Cars is now more rewarding than AC (most of the vehicles on the latest builds are not bad at all). I know, it may sound absurd, but just try the street Audi R8 or the Lotus 72 in both games...
 
It isn't excusable to move towards the accessible realm by sacrificing other aspects. That's why aids exist. One thing I always struggled with in AC has been the force feedback but that's outside the realm of this topic.
 
I haven't dabbled with racecars with AC as of late because I didn't like them before especially things like GT3/GT cars. This was up to the v1.2x times so I don't really know about now. I think the street cars in AC are the best in the business though and I've had this opinion since the game's pre-release tech-demo. I agree with some though who say that things seem a little under-active - not "alive" enough - but every sim falls either on that side of the scale or the other side and it's honestly not that bad at all with AC. Like with most sims, there are parts of ACs driving that I feel are superior to the rest, and parts which are behind.
 
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I know someone who was REALLY fast in Grand Prix Legends using a joystick and pedals.
 
Avo1977 said:
Copy paste from racedepartment

Assetto Corsa is in my opinion one of the best things happening in sim racing since a very long time 'cause it combines great graphics and car selection with a clever approach to physics modeling.

In particular the tire simulation is controlled with a few parameters accessible by the final users but it's still able to reproduce reality in a very credible manner thanks to the quite complex model chewing them.

Some of the AC builds have been truly gorgeous in terms of driving feel with a wonderful balance between accessibility (cars are easy to drive below the limit) and punishment (near and over the limit, no matter the available grip, all cars become nasty).

From build 1.3 we gained some important improvement in tire physiscs regarding load sensitivity (finally flat out Eau Rouge - Radillon is a real challenge for Gt3 cars even if for one year this was labeled as 'NO ISSUE'), but we completely lost any drama in carefully managing the throttle or controlling low and high speed oversteer.

Good drivers are still rewarded but misbehavior is just causing bad lap times with no virtual 'danger'.

The yaw rotation seems to be dampened and too forgiving.

It's correct to make things a bit easier in a simulation 'cause most of the crucial feedback needed to control a car are missing (linear and rotational accelerations) and even the best rigs introduces some significant lag, but at the moment IMHO AC has gone too far.

It would be interesting to know what has been changed in the core (and in the tire parameters) between 1.2.x and 1.3.x regarding the following aspects:
- yaw motion equations
- combined grip equations
- grip vs slip curves calculations (both longitudinal and lateral)
- tire relaxation length and its dependency on load

This product could truly dominate the market for both casual and hardcore sim-drivers, but at the moment it's apparently drifting toward the 'too easy' path.

It's perfectly understandable 'cause in this way it can attract more customers and have more funds for the next developments but IMHO it should give us the possibility to come back to the previous car behavior maintaining all the recent improvement introduced.

This would be an ideal win-win situation achievable by exposing just a few more parameters about tire dynamics and a bit of telemetry channels (mainly tires lateral and longitudinal forces).

At the moment I'm using an old 1.2.5 and, beside all its flaws, it's much more entertaining and similar to my real track and road driving experience than the latest AC versions...

Even project Cars is now more rewarding than AC (most of the vehicles on the latest builds are not bad at all). I know, it may sound absurd, but just try the street Audi R8 or the Lotus 72 in both games...
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Never head such a load of cods wallop.

Try the Lotus 72 he says in both games lool


How about you try the F1 Eve and BT20, see how your pathetically physics sterile pair of Lotus feel then.


How about you try the Cobra in both games. :rolleyes:

lol
 
I was comparing just AC and pCars.
Rf2 is in another league, physics wise.
 
Spinelli said:
I haven't dabbled with racecars with AC as of late because I didn't like them before especially things like GT3/GT cars. This was up to the v1.2x times so I don't really know about now. I think the street cars in AC are the best in the business though and I've had this opinion since the game's pre-release tech-demo. I agree with some though who say that things seem a little under-active - not "alive" enough - but every sim falls either on that side of the scale or the other side and it's honestly not that bad at all with AC. Like with most sims, there are parts of ACs driving that I feel are superior to the rest, and parts which are behind.
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Agree. All sims have their issues, but at least we have a lot to choose from. rF2 issue is the weightless feeling of most cars, very notable for example in the latest Camaro version. AC has a very weighty feeling on most cars - I think they got this part of the equations about right - but sadly it's behind in the tire model. pCars felt wrong in most ways last time I tried it, R3E felt arcade, GSCE / Automobilista still has some rF1 feeling to it, etc.
 
bwana said:
Why is this topic being discussed here ? Really. Why ? . You will get a lot more responses on the AC forums if there us such a thing. Don't think the majority of rF2 users either have tried it or if they have really give a toss.
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I agree this would be better discussed on the AC forums, but don't throw me in with your dirty bathwater. I'm fairly certain the majority of sim racers are like myself. And the majority own all the sims. I don't really understand or like the rabid fanboyism that some sim racers engage in. And I certainly don't want to be tossed in with these guys. As far as I'm concerned, they represent a very vocal minority.
 
Avo1977 said:
I was comparing just AC and pCars.
Rf2 is in another league, physics wise.
Click to expand...

Well I never ever said another league or world, just better imo.

I probably been most famous for saying if you threw ISI engine and features into Project Cars or Assetto Corsa would do me.

Something similar is no less then what I expect of the next ISI evolution.

Who is to say next version AC and pCars don't get bogged down in their current format /API while ISI with new API rock their world.


Spinelli once told me over years ago " just because they have DX10/11 does not mean ISI can build the best weather and effects " ..................we will see ( hopefully, toes crossed...p )

Sidenote: what he says about tyres makes no sense to me either, so ISI takes time
and AC is easy..........which means you have more mods with average tyres. ?

I mean any stock ISI tyres on the mods is better then 100's of number punched things.

Till I see mods in AC handle like Flat6 or Ferrari Challenge or others I remain unconvinced.
 
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Joe said:
thanks. I noticed the latest build of AC is much better. The sliding feels much better and easier to control now.
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Found it easy to control sliding from the initial release XD
 
Many moons ago, the character actor Robert Morley wrote a piece for Playboy on how to purchase a great meal in a restaurant. One of his methods was to complain. A lot. My first reaction was horror at the rudeness this man proposed. Mr. Morley, however, went on to explain that his criticism provided necessary feedback enabling the individual restaurants to maintain 5 star meals. On further consideration he has a point for restaurants and race sims.

Developers do read these message boards, Race Department's, No Grip's, and of course ISI's own boards. Thus these boards can serve as forums to tell developers what you like or don't like about their products. Developers may wish to modify their products to better conform to what the public wants. Self criticism is difficult at some point, and public feedback is the antedote. Posting a dislike in AC, rF2, PC, or iR, while it may initially hurt feelings, can provide valuable market research for developers and is theredore good for them. It may also get us better sims. Stating what you like is ok too. (Though if you only post likes you're not helping to move things forward.)

While these threads inevitably result in name calling I believe they do provide useful information to both developers and users. Its useful for people to say both what they like and what they don't like.

I for one enjoy these threads and feel I can learn stuff from the ensuing debates. Thanks to all.
 
DurgeDriven said:
Well I never ever said another league or world, just better imo.

I probably been most famous for saying if you threw ISI engine and features into Project Cars or Assetto Corsa would do me.

Something similar is no less then what I expect of the next ISI evolution.

Who is to say next version AC and pCars don't get bogged down in their current format /API while ISI with new API rock their world.


Spinelli once told me over years ago " just because they have DX10/11 does not mean ISI can build the best weather and effects " ..................we will see ( hopefully, toes crossed...p )

Sidenote: what he says about tyres makes no sense to me either, so ISI takes time
and AC is easy..........which means you have more mods with average tyres. ?

I mean any stock ISI tyres on the mods is better then 100's of number punched things.

Till I see mods in AC handle like Flat6 or Ferrari Challenge or others I remain unconvinced.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah... boring.. useless.. blah blah blah.
 
stonec said:
Agree. All sims have their issues, but at least we have a lot to choose from. rF2 issue is the weightless feeling of most cars, very notable for example in the latest Camaro version. AC has a very weighty feeling on most cars - I think they got this part of the equations about right - but sadly it's behind in the tire model. pCars felt wrong in most ways last time I tried it, R3E felt arcade, GSCE / Automobilista still has some rF1 feeling to it, etc.
Click to expand...

+1 (including the details of the capsule comments on the various titles)

And I went back to iRacing after a long hiatus and was pleasantly surprised to find a number of cars had been dramatically transformed for the better (apparently due to the tire model update in the second to last quarterly update). For example, the Skippy is like night and day compared to the older one. For the first time, it feels better than the rF2 version. Even so, it is now also a bit lifeless (and default set-up is super conservative, like a school set-up) and I am very confident when the new rF2 Skippy update appears, it will take the crown again. But isn't this amazing? Actual competition that is moving the whole industry forward? Actual choices from hared core sims all the way to console racers...all being actively developed in their own ways. I remember the drought years, so not a lot to complain about now.
 
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