Led566
Stefano Casillo actually read THAT 3D on racedepartment and just...get mad about it.
We don't know what happens to Camaj when he read some kind of posts here...
Stefano Casillo actually read THAT 3D on racedepartment and just...get mad about it.
We don't know what happens to Camaj when he read some kind of posts here...
DurgeDriven
Oh wow
You just described most of the people in here.
You write a piece on why you think rF2 physics are superior and the differences in 3 sims Historic F1's and the effects of under-steering into Variante Ascari at full speed............
What do they do ......? ....they bag you, call you a troll and a fanboy.
and this is on ISI's own site ??? lmao rof lol
Like wake up Australia !
You just described most of the people in here.
You write a piece on why you think rF2 physics are superior and the differences in 3 sims Historic F1's and the effects of under-steering into Variante Ascari at full speed............
What do they do ......? ....they bag you, call you a troll and a fanboy.
and this is on ISI's own site ??? lmao rof lol
Like wake up Australia !
rogue22
You guys can argue until your blue in the face on whats the best racing simulation out there, there simply isn't one. Not everyone takes there virtual racing experience on the same level as us hardcore sim racers. I used to be so bias about other sims but I just got over my hill. I buy them all now. Infact I'm going to purchase dirt Rally in a bit. The only thing I expect out of it is to have fun.
I keep Rfactor 2 to myself, AC and Pcars come in handy when I want other people to try some racing but don't want to degree of difficulty to takes to even do one lap in Rfactor 2.
Asseto corsa appeals to the masses just like Pcars does. They are easy on the eyes, sounds nice, and easy enough to jump in and have hours of drunken fun with without even having any type of experience at all.
Feels like what the average joe racing game driver thinks it should feel like. People who only want to race, just want a representation. They don't care about tire deformation, temps, and phyics, they just want to hop in and get a kick. They don't care about doing 200 plus laps of practice trying to get another 1.5 sec off there time. I own AC as well, its fun to show off with people who don't care much if its realistic or not, I've had a lot of people sit down at my PC. When I load Rfactor 2 they are impressed with it, however its degree of difficulty usually turns them back to AC.
Sim racers are a very very small breed unfortunately, and the simulations we use are mostly unheard of. We will always be out numbered by the masses.
No sense of beating a dead horse guys.
I keep Rfactor 2 to myself, AC and Pcars come in handy when I want other people to try some racing but don't want to degree of difficulty to takes to even do one lap in Rfactor 2.
Asseto corsa appeals to the masses just like Pcars does. They are easy on the eyes, sounds nice, and easy enough to jump in and have hours of drunken fun with without even having any type of experience at all.
Feels like what the average joe racing game driver thinks it should feel like. People who only want to race, just want a representation. They don't care about tire deformation, temps, and phyics, they just want to hop in and get a kick. They don't care about doing 200 plus laps of practice trying to get another 1.5 sec off there time. I own AC as well, its fun to show off with people who don't care much if its realistic or not, I've had a lot of people sit down at my PC. When I load Rfactor 2 they are impressed with it, however its degree of difficulty usually turns them back to AC.
Sim racers are a very very small breed unfortunately, and the simulations we use are mostly unheard of. We will always be out numbered by the masses.
No sense of beating a dead horse guys.
Minibull
Totally agree and that's where a lot of my AC hours have come from, messing around and having a laugh with mates.
It's just the usual hard thing that we see...something like PCars winning awards and being called by lots as the most realistic racing experience ever, when we sit here with a few other excellent options, raising our eyebrows at it.
I see it with motorbikes, there are people who seriously think that their Harley Davidson is the most powerful bike around, and the best thing to ride ever, yet most "normal" roadbikes will beat one off the line with ease. Not to mention vibrate less, have better comfort, mileage, grip and cornering ability.
I don't care about it normally, ride what you want, but if I'm talking with someone and they state something like that as "the troof", I get a little rankled.
Joe
I think in v1.4 they took a turn in the "simcade" direction. I have noticed that some cars just have way more grip than they should (like the lotus 72) and are way too grippy under throttle (you can just floor it out of a hairpin and not spin out). Also, I notice a Codemasters F1 effect where the more you turn the wheel the more grip you have, and maximum steering lock gives maximum grip PERIOD, which is very arcade, and is more suitable for controllers than wheels... (It really infuriates me to see someone set a WR with an XBOX controller
I remember a couple versions ago it was almost deserving of the title "sim" but not anymore... How is someone allowed to create a competitor to Forza and Shift and call it a "sim"? It's false advertising and an insult to real sim racers.
Well, how much grippy is too grippy? Similarly I felt the rF2 IndyCar is too grippy too. it might be the way is supposed(?).
the latest build AC improved a lot. I drove the Lotus 72 this weekend and like it a lot! Of course the FFB feel is still miles away from rF2. The car dynamics is excellent:, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDgo2YOHifo
QUF
What an almost eloquent way to say AC is almost a simulator.
When people try rf2 and call it difficult is because they load a clean track surface? Well, in rf2 when I load an already rubberized track all the driving is straight forward. Meaning you only need to know the optimum racing line around that specific track and push the throttle.
Just because a part of the player base doesn't care what's underneath the simulation model doesn't transform it into proof that the game isn't a realistic simulation. And the opposite can be said for sims that are "hard". In fact, I don't find rf2 hard at all, especially when the tracks are already grippy. I can corner and push the throttle without worries.
For example, on the "hard sim" subject:
"iRacing made the sliding/oversteering harder to control, too make the simulation more serious. iRacing is hard to master, because iRacing wants the sim racer to have a competitive simulation. so the sim racers can compete their racing skills to each other. And because its hard to master, people drive in it for years or even for ever and dont want any other racing simulation. Realistic physics ? Yes and No. Lets say the Physics are insanely well made, compared to real life physics. In realife you have much more time to correct a slide and your car has much more grip. sometimes its funny how easy it is in iRacing to spin out. But in the last update they added a new tire physics model. now you have a little bit more grip but its still not the same as in real life. All in all is iRacing the best racing simulator because its interesting and never bores you out."
DurgeDriven
rf2 is best you bunch of liars !
lol
djbob
Great post.
Spinelli
Totally agree with your first sentance. It's a passive-aggressive way of saying AC is simple, for the masses, and not a sim while RF2 is a true sim because it's more difficult. That overall statement couldn't be further from the truth; more difficult doesn't neccessarily mean more realistic/accurate vehicle dynamics and kinematics, from from it.
QUF
In fact, I have not seen people categorizing it easy; talking about the new comers to sim racing. New comers to driving a car at 18yo when taking driving school lessons also find it difficult, but then adapt and it becomes a natural thing. Then when they get a bit older they do some race track driving and find it difficult again. But that's until they learn the technique for driving or racing on a race track. The type of people which categorize AC as easy are people that are used to older generations of sims (and certain newer ones too) where it was unnecessarily hard to drive the cars like are driven in real life. rF2 is grippy enough, especially when you have optimum range warm tires. So I don't see what can actually be difficult here; given that you know how to control road/race cars, driving cars isn't a difficult task. It only becomes difficult when you are competing cars against other people, but that's the nature of competition.
Golanv
Driving a car is not hard. Driving a car to it's limits is not hard either. Driving a car to it's limits consistently, without killing yourself, that is hard.
Spinelli
Really? I wish I was as good a driver as you...
I had the record laptime in my F2000 real-life season out of about 30 people but not on one single lap throughout a year of test days, practice sessions, qualifying sessions, and race sessions did I ever lap within a second or two (I can't remember, either 1 or 2) of the ultimate theoretical best laptime the car was capable of which our race instructors could manage just about any day. Also, when world-top up-and-coming real-life drivers came to the track (eg. Marco DiLeo, James Hinchcliffe, and many others), they would be on that top pace within the end of the first day or maybe 2nd day (each day consists of 4 20-minute sessions - about 17 or 18 hotlaps each).
So, if your definition of "the limit" means the theoretical ultimate laptime of a vehicle (or within a very small % of it), then, no, it's not not hard to do so even once let alone alone consistently but rather extremely difficult for most people.
On the other hand, if by "the limit" you just mean maybe reaching the theoretical vehicle's limit for a second or so during (Eg.) part of the braking phase or exit phase (getting on the power), then, yes, I agree, it's easy for anyone to periodically reach the limit even if you're lapping 10 seconds slower, just smash the throttle or lock a brake or add way too much steering lock and you will eventually hit the limit for a very short period of time.
In-terms of pure laptime driving (ie. racing) it's extremely difficult to get to the limit for even 1 entire corner let alone 1 lap let alone, as you rightfully pointed out, consistently.
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Minibull
Yep, and that definitely depends on your interpretation of what the limit is. It isn't hard to push a car too fast into a corner, wash the front out, then push it hard on exit and battle with oversteer. Technically, the tyres are being pushed over their edge, you may be "on the limits". How many guys screech the tyres at a trackday and think they are well pushing it...
But it's that skill of being able to juggle the car around, transferring the weight where you need it, and keeping it balanced so nicely lap after lap. And that's where the reward comes, for me at least. Having that dancing feeling with the car while putting in nice clean but fast laps. It just feels damn good haha! Where you know you are really pushing it, with the car slithering around, but it all seems so calm (sort of). And then the 30 laps fly by and you sort of "wake up".
Personally, that's where I've found it in rF2, where I get a big feeling of depth in each corner, like I could do things differently and still have a good result, provided I'm in tune with keeping it balanced. I have been doing lots of races with the flat 6 around different circuits, just done 4 at the Nurburgring GP. Each time I was trying to take the corners in a different way, and just seeing the effects on the laps, the car and the tyres at the end. One race I'd push the entries and give up some exit, see how it turns out, then I'd try a race going for as high mid corner speeds, keeping the lines very even and smooth. Then I tried late apexing the corners that I could, seeing much more exit speed and higher top speeds. Then I shortened it down to a sprint and made the AI faster and had a hoot of a time trying everything under the sun to keep attacking and defending XD
If you find your little niche like I seem to have, and it fills you with the same emotions and feelings while driving, then it doesn't really matter what anyone says, because people can't take that from you.
Will Mazeo
More realism = less mainstream
Get over it.
Get over it.
skipgamer
AC physics are pretty good, but then it's actual simulation is entirely average (no rain? no manual pit-limiter? no launch control? just to name a few), but then it has free online multiplayer, but then the game is split over multiple processes :S, but then it has a fully customisable hud and easily scriptable "apps", but then you can't move them past a certain point vertically on the screen...
It has ups and downs. But then to answer the question of the physics I don't think it's terrible at all, some of the stock cars I think have quite average properties (no way a stock nissan GTR would slide that much on an optimal track, even on cold tyres). I just think that the most popular servers are drift servers says a lot, something's not entirely right, but at the same time some cars are still an absolute joy to race, spend time tweaking set-ups and have quite passable physics.
I do think it is a shame that mod makers flocked to it for the updated graphics, and I really doubt it would be anywhere near as popular if not for that. (Going off topic now.) Hopefully the stable of rF2 cars/tracks continues to grow and if ISI pumps out a rF3 (please not for quite some time) they make it backwards compatible this time as surely the graphics quality from rF2 assets will suffice for quite some many years to come.
It has ups and downs. But then to answer the question of the physics I don't think it's terrible at all, some of the stock cars I think have quite average properties (no way a stock nissan GTR would slide that much on an optimal track, even on cold tyres). I just think that the most popular servers are drift servers says a lot, something's not entirely right, but at the same time some cars are still an absolute joy to race, spend time tweaking set-ups and have quite passable physics.
I do think it is a shame that mod makers flocked to it for the updated graphics, and I really doubt it would be anywhere near as popular if not for that. (Going off topic now.) Hopefully the stable of rF2 cars/tracks continues to grow and if ISI pumps out a rF3 (please not for quite some time) they make it backwards compatible this time as surely the graphics quality from rF2 assets will suffice for quite some many years to come.
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QUF
Okay.. but then this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ke9RoFrXOA start watching from 0:35, don't skip over that part.
(true, it was over an year ago).
DurgeDriven
oi Spin
.........I pity anyone can't pick what sim is the best for them, more so talking and dissecting the same sims for 4 yearsand still being no closer to a answer.
Shame ....shame.
hehehe
Someone saying they drive 3 sims and they are all kinda just about the same and all as good as each other makes my head swim.
Bollocks
Who is arguing ? imho rF2 is the best feeling sim to drive I have ever driven.
Whether no one on this planet believes that I could not care less !
You believe in yourself
not logic like yours or you will never truly like anything.Saabjock
Will you guys please move past this "silly" discussion.
Every time the subject of RF2 and AC come up, it ends the same way.
Go buy what you like, drive it and stop with these ten year-old style comparisons.
It's getting just a tad bit old.
You don't have to 'down' one to make the other better.
They're both good in their own right.
"Move on already"
Every time the subject of RF2 and AC come up, it ends the same way.
Go buy what you like, drive it and stop with these ten year-old style comparisons.
It's getting just a tad bit old.
You don't have to 'down' one to make the other better.
They're both good in their own right.
"Move on already"
DurgeDriven
Don't you think people that push points of view with data and explanations only college students understands,
graphs and replays and real life compares for years on end can be even happy with anyone sim.
How can they ever perceive one as best.
I swear on my Dad's grave the first ever corner I did in rF2, ( F3-Eve at Belgium Eau Rouge from pits ) I was simply overwhelmed.
Then I crashed very hard at Les Combe .................. and Burnville and Malmedy and all I could think is " how awesome !@! " .................... lmao
Not a day goes by in 4 years it does not continue to amaze me in new ways all the time, it never ends, simply nothing before has ever had this effect on me.
So I rather think that for 4 years then search for a holy grail that already exists in each our minds sub conscious.
Whatever sim/s it is, accept it, I bet you be happier for it.
graphs and replays and real life compares for years on end can be even happy with anyone sim.
How can they ever perceive one as best.
I swear on my Dad's grave the first ever corner I did in rF2, ( F3-Eve at Belgium Eau Rouge from pits ) I was simply overwhelmed.
Then I crashed very hard at Les Combe .................. and Burnville and Malmedy and all I could think is " how awesome !@! " .................... lmao
Not a day goes by in 4 years it does not continue to amaze me in new ways all the time, it never ends, simply nothing before has ever had this effect on me.
So I rather think that for 4 years then search for a holy grail that already exists in each our minds sub conscious.
Whatever sim/s it is, accept it, I bet you be happier for it.
Gonzas
maybe modders have been playing around with miles sound system for ages, maybe they need something new, maybe modders want to show their talent on some graphycal aspects ,and they are still waiting for things included in Rfactor 2 advertising in 2010 like rain over whindshields , damage layer in the cars and so on.... vertex?
about online? i am idiot, i admit it, a lot of times i have been not able to open a server with the car we choose on the circuit we choose and have fun with my friends online. i am idiot, but i can do it in the rest of games , on some of them is just two clics, on others 20 clicks but is easy enough for idiots like me.
rFactor 2 is still the best racing simulator, im not sure about the best driving experience, and is the only one in the market who can give you 100% racing simulation , on day, night , wet and dry conditions.
you can think whatever you want and say whatever you want about the rest of games/sims but they are growing and some of them uses recent tecnology that will give them the chance to improve even more. Each day they are more close to rFactor 2 and the true (or my true) is that AC is not way far from rF2, is right now a couple of steps away. as soon as they offers rain, it will be only one step.
Will Mazeo
@Gonzas just read/listen Kunos interviews. Some stuff will NEVER appear on AC. They just don't want it. They use the "hardcore sim racer" bs excuse all the time. They aren't trying to make AC a sim, plain and simple. Their interviews and reports is what made me disappoitned with AC one week after I bought it in early access and this is being reflected on the game. The fact that they created a generation of "sim racers" that has graphics as #1 priority makes this very clear, and this is why they are so mainstream.
QUF
You're spreading major disinformation
Apart from my first line, that isn't why people liked AC in the beginning and why still like to use it nowadays. It was because of the driving simulation. Graphics and sounds do help. And so you need a good mix of everything. You can't just say that certain sim racers aren't sim racers because they prefer a game that has good looking graphics over one that hasn't. They are sim racers because are indeed using a car driving/racing software that was made for simulating how a real life car/race car drives, generally on asphalted race track.
If sim racers really have graphics as no1 priority, then AC wouldn't be popular and everyone would be driving cars on PS4's DriveClub game.
Will Mazeo
Keep telling yourself that, won't make it true tho.
Anyway this is waste of time, Kunos already stated AC will keep being a hot lap game and won't change their way. AC fanbase will continue to look like a console forum, soooo if people could keep it out of here would be very good. Nuff said.
Anyway this is waste of time, Kunos already stated AC will keep being a hot lap game and won't change their way. AC fanbase will continue to look like a console forum, soooo if people could keep it out of here would be very good. Nuff said.
Andrew_WOT
Keep telling yourself that, won't make it true tho.
Anyway this is waste of time, Kunos already stated AC will keep being a hot lap game and won't change their way. AC fanbase will continue to look like a console forum, soooo if people could keep it out of here would be very good. Nuff said.
Denial.
But what do they know.
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-looking-back-on-2015.115944/
View attachment 19037
QUF
For you is a waste of time because there's only so many things people can come up with. I hotlap, I practice, I race offline, I race online. How is it just a hotlap game? If games like rf2 have a richer customization for simulating different regulations and ways of organizing a race, and AC is more limited on that part, but I can still race vs AI or vs human players, it makes of it a racing game. Clear as water argument. When you enter the subjectivity domain of expectations vs reality/promised, then yes you can get disappointed.Keep telling yourself that, won't make it true tho.
Anyway this is waste of time, Kunos already stated AC will keep being a hot lap game and won't change their way. AC fanbase will continue to look like a console forum, soooo if people could keep it out of here would be very good. Nuff said.
Golanv
Keep telling yourself that, won't make it true tho.
Anyway this is waste of time, Kunos already stated AC will keep being a hot lap game and won't change their way. AC fanbase will continue to look like a console forum, soooo if people could keep it out of here would be very good. Nuff said.
Do you also sell bibles? I smoked mine and didn't get to finish it yet.
As Saabjock said, play what you want, nobody cares.
Will Mazeo
haha the usual behavior
It's fun guys, thanks
It's fun guys, thanks
Joe
Denial.
But what do they know.
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-looking-back-on-2015.115944/
View attachment 19037
Interesting....sure there must be some truth behind the survey. We just cannot deny it.
In terms of physics, I think the rF2 tyre model is superior. You can visually see tyre deformation in the game to compare both games. Ofc, you can play the tyre tool to see too. rF2 to me is pretty "realistic":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se10lenTxTo
while the AC is not the case. I see tires seem not properly touch the ground and see no such deformation visually.
In that survey, most people might not use DD steering wheel or people just did not weight too much on comparing FFB feel between them.
I played both games since started, with my 3DoF motion rig all the time. The AC was pretty bad before (in all aspects in terms of physics -- subjective feel), but recent builds improved considerably. Can AC future tyre model catch up rF2's, we need to wait to see....
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Domi
The visual representation means absolutely nothing. And AC tyres don't have visual deformation, at all.
By the way, looking at your videos, other people might not have a DD steering wheel, but you are incredibly far from driving close to the edge of the cars. I don't know which thing is more important when judging the handling/ffb/whateverelse of the cars.
Spinelli
+1
Joe
Are you absolutely sure on this or you guessed?
you seemed to suggest one can only judge physics between those two is to drive over a "limit". This video showed some sliding state. You do not need to go over spin-off though.
BTW, I did all the time on over limit.....it is not that easy handle at limit on motion rig just like real car. Oversteer and understeeing, and sliding is common way for me to try....nothing special per such argument.
Again as I say, 1) rF2 FFB is far better feel (to me more "realistic"). 2) rF2 tyre model to me is better 3) in grip state, car dynamics of both sims are pretty good, hard to tell which one is better. 3) at limit or transitioning to sliding state, I do not know which one is better since I have no clue of real car behavior, I am not a real drifter neither slide real race car before.
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samcar304
When Assetto Corsa first came out i bought it and enjoyed it. Then something changed and i didn't like it, just couldn't feel the handling. And now it has changed again and i really enjoy driving it. Up there with rFactor 2, R3E and Stock Car Extreme which are my usual racing sims.
Maybe there will be one sim that will bring balance to the force in the future... but who knows
Maybe there will be one sim that will bring balance to the force in the future... but who knows
RNelson
How can we ever hope to achieve world peace when we cannot even let people enjoy the racing sim of their choice ....................
DurgeDriven
yeah yeah whatever
You like Project Cars , Assetto Corsa , whatever ............. good
I could not give a whoop whoop lol ?
Go enjoy whatever you like ? !
wtf !?!
Your types problems is you simply can't tolerate anyone does not agree with the majority........
World Peace, seriously.
You like Project Cars , Assetto Corsa , whatever ............. good
I could not give a whoop whoop lol ?
Go enjoy whatever you like ? !
wtf !?!
Your types problems is you simply can't tolerate anyone does not agree with the majority........
World Peace, seriously.
DurgeDriven
I see AC goes console
Will go the same way as Codies and SMS, these that make console end up forgetting that they make PC sims for a minority.
Will go the same way as Codies and SMS, these that make console end up forgetting that they make PC sims for a minority.
Guimengo
I hope now there will be no more distractions and they return to tackle some key things from the game on PC. It can't be that netKar Pro will be a better sim. It was such an excellent base, drove quite ahead of rF1 too.
DurgeDriven
Did Codemasters and SMS with all the money from consoles make their sims any better ? , I do not think so.
I don't think pCars 2 or whatever they call it will be any better for it either.
Guimengo
If you look at their track history, there was nothing to propose an improvement for their PC games. Neither did they have titles catering to that field (CM's last being Colin McRae 2.0), nor had PC as the focus. SMS had 2 Need for Speeds and a Test Drive game.
Kunos comes from PC and from a sim racing breed. NetKar was fantastic for the little thing it was. nKp drove, looked and felt incredible especially when not broken (v1.03). Ferrari Virtual Academy supposedly pushed the nKp base even more. Kunos joined Papyrus in the realm of sims, then SimBin and ISI made-up the rest of the tiny mix (RBR doesn't count as it was a one-hit wonder).
DurgeDriven
What has CM done for PC physics, all the Race Drivers and Grids, F1 2010 to F1-2015 , the Dirts ?
What we get Dirt Rally, sure fantastic visual and immersion nirvana but come on be honest, okay I will say it, the physics plain suck.
Ever since Toca Racing they have lost the plot.
and SMS I was just talking about the console money from ProjectCARS, they need to hire a new guy with fresh approach to engine and physics. Gjons don't grow on trees but...... at least I don't think they do !@! .... lol
It makes business sense in the end, you have 2 models one model makes a heap more money, what do you put resources behind ?
ISI Consoles would be the death of physics. Gjon could put his feet up slap out sad saggy arsed semi sims all day long. p
Say ....." sad saggy arsed semi sims" 3 times quick. p
What we get Dirt Rally, sure fantastic visual and immersion nirvana but come on be honest, okay I will say it, the physics plain suck.
Ever since Toca Racing they have lost the plot.
and SMS I was just talking about the console money from ProjectCARS, they need to hire a new guy with fresh approach to engine and physics. Gjons don't grow on trees but...... at least I don't think they do !@! .... lol
It makes business sense in the end, you have 2 models one model makes a heap more money, what do you put resources behind ?
ISI Consoles would be the death of physics. Gjon could put his feet up slap out sad saggy arsed semi sims all day long. p
Say ....." sad saggy arsed semi sims" 3 times quick. p
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