Re-encouraging track modeling

Hi McFly, I'm a bit like you, I can make cars, but just couldn't get my head around making tracks. These guys probably know a lot more but what gave me the edge to get started was a mixture of the rf track making tutorial and this forum thread.

The tutorial can be found here under Misc Tutorials and useful links
http://www.mbdevteam.com/download/Tutorials/index.html

I found the extrude method most practical.
 
I'm glad to help in some way, i placed those tutorials but there are a ton of hidden areas, i know.
But for starting, it's a good thing to have a good idea of the area you had to recreate, light and environment are very important.
 
Thanks Elwood! Yes there is a lot of hidden areas and if the community want quality tracks, you guys need to share it with people who have the potential to build quality tracks. :)
I feel starved and it's starting to frustrate me somewhat, I know I have the ability to do well, Jan Kohl knows my quality of work, that's why he has me building cars for NAGT. But the lack of information is the biggest problem. All I know to date I learned from a few sites like yours and the rest of the stuff I know is from reverse engineering and spending hours and hours figuring things out. It's almost like a secret society with a special handshake. :D

But anyway, thanks for sharing what you and others have shared, without it we'd be completely lost :)
 
Guys, do you use bump maps for tarmac? I'm about to say that track surface turns more realistic whitout it (only difuse + specular).
 
Thanks Elwood, what's that tool you have open to the right of the uv editor?

Also, going through the tutorial on material bases
In section 0012, I think since that tutorial was written people have learned that it can be fixed by using reset xform.
 
UV TOOLS 1.50

Script: Unwrap tools 1.50
Version: 1.50
tested using Max 6.0, Max 7.0, Max 8.0 , max 9.0

Anyway there are more version around, look at this, i haven't tested this one yet.

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/textools-toolbox-for-the-texture-artist

But seems really cool.

.edit.

About the 0012 section you are right, now we know that reset xform fix the flipped normals, but that tuto is a bit old and probably we were unaware about the xform trick.
I'll ask if i can modify it, it's not mine, i think was done by Nugit.
Thanks for the advice.
 
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Thanks for that.
I have tex tools, when I first found it I was looking for something that did the same as the 'unwrap follow active quad' function in Blender (which will unwrap a road into a straight line). There is a straighten tool in there that kind of does the job, but it needs fixing up afterwards, then again its a lot faster then setting up a spline to unwrap via.

Cheers
 
Neat, thanks for that!

Whilst I'm posting I want to share something in return. I discovered a neat trick to make grass blades on the terrain really easily. I don't know if it's been done before or how practical it is, but when I was playing with the random selector it hit me that I could use it to 'randomly' generate grass blade meshes all different sizes and facing different ways.

I'll explain what I did incase it might benefit anyone.

I duplicated the terrain mesh, deleted parts that I didn't want grass blades on, then I ran a few levels of mesh smooth over it until the edges close to the track were the right length for grass blades, then used the random select tool to randomly select edges (I only used 1% in the tool, and that was ~15,000 edges) Then I extrude them up and leave the edges selected then detached them (the one top edge selected caused the 2 faces (one facing each way) to detach). Then delete the left over mesh.
Then I switched to face mode and selected all and set the auto smooth to a very low value 0.something and auto smoothed then selected by smoothing groups and detached each to element (this will separate any joined faces, I got some side by side with the random selector).
With all selected I checked the amount of faces I had and made note of it, then looking sideways with ignore back facing turned on, I swipe selected the half facing me (did this a few times, orbiting each time till I ended up with exactly half of the total faces that I noted down) then set the alpha transp. material to those faces, then I inverted the selection and set the chroma transp. material to the other faces.
Then I selected all and with snap turned on I shift + drag and duplicated the faces and snapped them back in place, then rotated the faces 90 (with the object gizmo thingy set so each face would turn on its own axis) and there you go, random grass blades everywhere. Then I just selected them in groups and broke them up into different objects. For this project I ended up with 37 objects ~800 faces each, set to lod out at 200. Also I set the mipmaps to blur out faster so the grass kind of fades out/in smoothly and blending with the terrain you hardly notice it loding at all.

It takes a lot of processing power to do, if you have an older pc and you try it, break the mesh up first and do it in stages.
 
This is some excellent info for a Novice (n00b) like myself. I'd really love to get into track building and editing, but I find myself afraid to leave the comfy confines of car modeling (still learning this as well, very novice). I actually sent a joking message to Tim Wheatley on Twitter asking if there were any plans for an rFactor Car and Track Modeling for Dummies book in the works. :)
 
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Well I've gotten to the point now where I have a very solid track (working on ovals for the more simplicity...at least in my eyes), now it is time to do banking and I haven't the slightest clue as to how to go about it. I want to add 15 degrees of banking to the corners but not sure how to gauge how much I have added or not added.

I've watched the MBDev Team's tutorials but with no audio or explanation I'm trying to breakdown what to do with what I see and that's a headache. :-\

Any tips?
 
Well after some fighting back and forth amongst different methods I finally came down to creating the track surface and initial grass in BTB then importing into 3ds Max to fine tune and re-work textures. I hope I'm on the right track...certainly feel like I am. Here is a few shots of my current progress of Bowman Gray Stadium.

221009679-665d056b3da01beb5f34a7bab90e4430.4d261130-scaled.jpg


221009567.jpg
 
thanx elwood and mianiak for the scripts. :)
i'm using morphmap since quite a while. just tried the uv tools, and they are great. and the UV Strip Straightener looks interesting.

there are many useful scripts making modding easier.
some from this site are also very helpful: http://andklv2.narod.ru/maxscripts/ak-maxscripts.html
i use 111_paint_cloner, 111_random_transforms and 111_scriptedGlue much often for distributing and conforming objects.
and of course this oldie but goodie: http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/mouseplanter
from this site: http://www.scriptattack.com/ the VertsAligner is very handy for my needs. didn't tried SuperPainter yet. seems to be another interesting scatter/distribution tool.

markus ;-)
 
I'm not making tracks myself but I have a question. If you want to add a crack to the road surface, do you always have to create a new mesh for it? I tried to look at some tracks and they did this. And how do you create the mesh, do you just use what's available in 3ds max or is there some kind of a trick to it?
 
@mianiak: i bookmarked Straighten Edge once, when browsing the site, but never tried it. thank for the reminder :)

@commodore: select some polys of the trackmesh, detach as clone to object. cut to refine the shape. apply the mat of the crack, map it, and move it up about 1-2 cm. of course you could also create a new mesh and conform it with the max built in compound objects -> conform, or the 111_scriptedGlue script mentioned above.
i prefer using a copy of the existing trackmesh, as you have edges matching the track, which makes it easier when having objects in such low distance above the surface.

markus ;-)
 
Thank you that's what I wanted to hear :). I just hoped that maybe you could use projected decals but there's probably no difference considering that sending polygons to the graphics card is really cheap nowadays :p
 
Anyone have any tips for creating guard rails? Could I create basically a wall, but instead give the texture a transparency style texture to get the guard rail type effect (I suppose same as creating catch fences). Here is what I am trying to do:

may8078.jpg


For the above type guard rails, create a box and use the following texture:

grdrla.jpg
 
Using a flat panel with transp. tex. and bump mapping is the way it's done mostly, but if you watch your poly count, it doesn't hurt to make them a 3d model and use the flat panel as a lod replacement. I spose it depends on how close they will be to the camera.
 
Ah, thank you thank you. I guess really the only other thing I am stuck on is cube maps and specular cube maps. Any tips on where to find a good tutorial on cube maps, say cube maps 101? lol
 
R Soul said:
Specular maps: http://simtrackipedia.wikidot.com/specular-map

Cube maps: http://simtrackipedia.wikidot.com/cube-map
Click to expand...

Ah much obliged R Soul!

Now I really only have one question left...

I notice some track makers say they prefer to create a spline then extrude the track from that spline but I am confused by that method. I can Loft a track, Box Model a track to the point of happiness, but I am curious as to if Spline Extrusion would be an easier method? Just not sure how to go about it is all. The other two methods I am crystal clear on.
 
for myself, i can't see any advantage in using extrude and push for creating the track mesh. i'm curious, why Scott is doing it this way.:confused: but i guess, he has good reasons for it.
it is very nice for creating walls and fences, esp. when there is a need to keeping the geometry upright (proper english?) as it's always a problem when using loft or path deform, at least for me. extruding a path, doing a loop select on some edges, and then pushing them to get the desired shape, works great.

3ds max still amazes me. there are so many ways how you can create your geometry :)

markus ;-)
 
I honestly found extrude to be the best method for me, I laid out my spline, set my elevations, adjusted the control arms, then normalised the spline to 20m segments. From there I extruded and pushed. Having 20m segments made it real easy to move verts into place using the screen setting on the gizmo and aligning the viewport to the edge. I set it so the edges were on the track lines, then when it was all set out to shape(after extruding the terrain), I hit meshsmooth x2 on the selected track edges and it all just fell into place.
Let me make a quick video showing what I did.
 
The trouble with your method mianiak is that it isn't so accurate. You have little control over the two mesh smooths you do which will fail to accurately replicate the road surface. I use some guide splines for the inner and outer of the road after lofting down the middle of the terrain and use a maxscript to match the x and y co-ordinates of created verts to them. I also create polygons for the outer lines and fix the mapping to allow for accurate changes in road width but also to keep the roadline size consistent.
 
Would that be VertsAligner?
So all you'd do is make your spline down the middle > set up elevations > copy twice once for outer and once for inner > line up outer and inner splines > normalise to 5m. Then loft > select an edge loop, convert to vertices > VertsAligner?
 
I notice you use a plane as your background reference. I started out like that but find the object gave me such poor resolution in the viewports so switched over to a full blown Viewport Background (Lock Pan Zoom/Match Bitmap) then just scaling along a path before Converting to rF. Obviously the main drawback with that is that the Viewport Background doesn't rotate with the Orbit tool.

Basically what I'm going to do is create a base project with my lines/splines as well as plenty of place holders for doing certain objects later then do the racing area with different methods to so the results. So far I'm going to start off with this:

3dsmaxbase.jpg
 
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mianiak said:
Would that be VertsAligner?
So all you'd do is make your spline down the middle > set up elevations > copy twice once for outer and once for inner > line up outer and inner splines > normalise to 5m. Then loft > select an edge loop, convert to vertices > VertsAligner?
Click to expand...

I wrote my own script, but I use beizer splines and keep a normalise to 1m modifier on the stack, but the basic principle is there.
 
beatnik said:
I notice you use a plane as your background reference. I started out like that but find the object gave me such poor resolution in the viewports so switched over to a full blown Viewport Background (Lock Pan Zoom/Match Bitmap) then just scaling along a path before Converting to rF. Obviously the main drawback with that is that the Viewport Background doesn't rotate with the Orbit tool.
Click to expand...

Use photoshop to slice the image up into smaller pieces and then use a plane with different maps on different polys.
 
Alex Sawczuk said:
Use photoshop to slice the image up into smaller pieces and then use a plane with different maps on different polys.
Click to expand...

Hmm, never thought about that Alex, good idea!

Man I can't thank everyone enough for all the help and ideas you all have given me. It is truly an exciting thing when there is this much interaction on this topic. :)
 
Alex Sawczuk said:
I wrote my own script, but I use beizer splines and keep a normalise to 1m modifier on the stack, but the basic principle is there.
Click to expand...
Ok cool, thanks!

I have to ask this question though, (just to satisfy my curiosity).
Couldn't you use that method with extrude? It would reduce a step too, instead of having to do 3 splines, you only have to do 2.

----------
re texture resolution, yeah it sux, imho one of the worst inconveniences 3dmax has, It must not be hard to do because blender has crystal clear texture display. Maybe it's an opengl v's directx thing, I dunno. But once you start using it you get used to it, zoom in and out to see it clearer and also, Preferences > viewports > configure driver > texel look up > nearest.
I'm not sure if background texture size is related but I was told to set that to 1024 and to enable match bitmap size as closely as possible.
But for a guide, its best to have it on it's own plane.
 
mianiak said:
re texture resolution, yeah it sux, imho one of the worst inconveniences 3dmax has, It must not be hard to do because blender has crystal clear texture display. Maybe it's an opengl v's directx thing, I dunno. But once you start using it you get used to it, zoom in and out to see it clearer and also, Preferences > viewports > configure driver > texel look up > nearest.
I'm not sure if background texture size is related but I was told to set that to 1024 and to enable match bitmap size as closely as possible.
But for a guide, its best to have it on it's own plane.
Click to expand...

It's definitely aggravating. I mean you do a Viewport Background it comes out clear as day, you do a plane with the texture and the plane is smaller than the VP BG, it's all blurred. So I'm going to give Alex's suggestion a shot and chop it into four pieces and see what I come up with.
 
I try to keep the images at around 500px.

the reason for using a centre line in the loft rather than extruding from one side is so that you don't have really few/too many polygons thru the turns.
 
Found a workaround for my issue. I switched from DirectX over to OpenGL for 3ds Max and the texture is nearly perfect.
 
Alex Sawczuk said:
I try to keep the images at around 500px.

the reason for using a centre line in the loft rather than extruding from one side is so that you don't have really few/too many polygons thru the turns.
Click to expand...

hehe, such a simple explanation :D
Alright, you convinced me to try loft now.

Cheers! :)
 
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