So....who has PCars?

msportdan

I do, and im quite impressed its the most complete race sim out there, and yes it is a sim. How is anyone finding the tyre model compared to rf2? I think its quite good i do need more time with it, but with that and its ffb it really feels like your on rubber tyres. Im impressed, as much as RF2 is good and all.... pcars tyre model is almost just as good imo. It certainly looks like it flex's more authentically, personally think RF2 visuals of tyre flex is too overdone and makes the tyre seem under inflated, Pcars seem to have this right.

Anyway yes it hasnt RR or the same great AI but for a game developed like this, i think RF2 or AC has something to worry about.

Just because i like this doesnt mean im not a true sim fan or any crap that someone will surely say. Its quite fine to like another sim and think its as good as rf2.
 
i dont find the default FFB or tires to feel anything like rf2, but im loving it as well.

i definitely dont get the very distinct feeling im on dynamic rubber tires that only rf2 gives me.

but i do agree its a proper sim though we'll be in the minority here :)
 
maybe people should come around to the fact that could actually be a better tyre model than the gmotor one...

I thinks it feels just as good or even better, sometimes rf2 ffb/feeling of being on tyres (pre Contact patch) felt frankly crap!
 
youve always had that weird opinion tho :)

to me its always felt amazing. i cant say objectively better or w/e, bc i dont know, its just very distinct & impressive for what it is, & to me it feels really really good.
 
I like pCars too, had it from the beginning really....but I still have to play a bit the FFB settings (especially per car settings) to get it to my likings.
 
Had it from the beginning but cashed it back when it went to steam only.
Unless I'm thinking of a different title?
 
msportdan's opinion might be the first really positive comment about PC's physics i have heard. I would like to hear more opinions from rF2 players. I have been trying to find some information about the final versions physics, but people are just talking about it's craphics and other irrelevant things.
 
I think the FFB is great but generally the cars are too understeery to my liking.
 
It depends on which car to try too. Like in any game, there will always be some cars you love and others you hate. Some cars feel really good, FFB and physics wise some others not to my likings. But overall, I'm loving it.

Then again, I think everyone has his own tastes and likings. I personally love all of them (rF2, AC, RE3 and pCars), yet some hate some and love some.......so I think its all personal taste :) Would be good if there will be a demo for ppl to try like rF2 and RE3 but I doubt it will happen.
 
Agreed some say it's a hardcore sim others say arcade/simcade

They should do a demo, if they were confident of their title you'd think they would. ( as ISI has )
 
Just to corret you msportdan, but gMotor is the graphics part of the isiMotor, pMotor is the physics.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to trying out pCARS tomorrow. It worries me that opinions differ so much as to whether it feels like an arcade game or a sim. But I will try it out with a completely open mind of course.
 
hexagramme said:
Just to corret you msportdan, but gMotor is the graphics part of the isiMotor, pMotor is the physics.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to trying out pCARS tomorrow. It worries me that opinions differ so much as to whether it feels like an arcade game or a sim. But I will try it out with a completely open mind of course.
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Great -post you feedback hexagramme !
 
Glad it's over. Been firing up that game every month or so over the last three years to check for improved feel only to be disappointed.

One thing they do have is something to do, unlike rF2 and AC. ISI's industry-leading AI is being squandered with every roadblock imaginable and unimaginable such as buggy result logs, reliance on third party applications to view even the most basic performance indicators such as personal bests, and the requirement to modify vehicles in order to have consistent competitors across races in championships that...yeah...you have to keep track of on paper.

DiRT Rally and pCars should be a wake up call for ISI and Kunos and this will be the subject of my next video.
 
PCars is fun. It is sim, (but then again, sadly, nowadays anything and everything with "pretty good" handling characteristics and/or FFB feel is considered a sim, heck, people even consider the new Dirt Rally an actual sim). It doesn't have that "pro-simness" that rF2 has though. For example, if I had millions of dollars and had a professional race-training centre - you know, something really industrial and strictly for pro-use - the only physics engine I'd use is rFactor 2 and iRacing (maybe some AC cars, but it's hit-and-miss with that engine). Each of those two, like all sims, drives and feels different to one-another, however, they're the only two physics engines that have that depth and complexity to the way the vehicles behave. PCars is fun, but it doesn't go that far into sim territory like the vehicle dynamics of rFactor 2 and iRacing do.

All the little subtle dynamics according to your sensitive changes in throttle/brake/steering inputs - and also they way those inputs are made according to what state of balance/grip/slip the car is in - just don't exist in PCars like they do in rFactor 2 (and also stuff like GSC), iRacing, and real-life.

In PCars, it's pretty easy, personally, to experience the "video-gamishness" of the physics at times despite the game being somewhere in that "sim-realm" (which almost every decent racing-car game nowadays seems to fall somewhere into).

Bottom line to me personally, it's an awesome game, but if I just came home from a year of real-life racing, and couldn't do it anymore and was obsessed with just real-life racing rather than playing videogames, then the only thing I'd be even remotely satisfied with would be rFactor 2 and iRacing (with maybe some AC here and there, but not generally so).
 
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hexagramme said:
Just to corret you msportdan, but gMotor is the graphics part of the isiMotor, pMotor is the physics.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to trying out pCARS tomorrow. It worries me that opinions differ so much as to whether it feels like an arcade game or a sim. But I will try it out with a completely open mind of course.
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Most of the cars are way too easy to drive but my advice to you is that try out DRM cars, Ford Capri, BMW M1, BMW 320 or Lotus 85, gated shifter, no auto clutch.
 
msportdan said:
maybe people should come around to the fact that could actually be a better tyre model than the gmotor one...

I thinks it feels just as good or even better, sometimes rf2 ffb/feeling of being on tyres (pre Contact patch) felt frankly crap!
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Show me the numbers and graph traces before making such bold statements.

Also gMotor is the graphics engine and has nothing to do with the physics engine pMotor. Also rF2's tires are simulated at a much higher resolution and is graded to be objectively accurate enough for real race car development without fudging and not just driver training or to subjectively feel good for the average gamer.

pCars is a solid, nice, complete and polished race experience, but it is in a different market compared to rF2.
 
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Mibrandt said:
I think the FFB is great but generally the cars are too understeery to my liking.
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ive read the default setups are generally very safe (because consoles). saw it recommended to lower the differential for one thing, which is something ive been doing.

re the cars...i like em! except the one i was really looking forward to racing, the formula rookie...dunno if its based on a real car but its not a "learn to drive correctly/correct correctly(??)" fun kinda thing like the skippy or f vee its just a really safe dull race car.
 
WhiteShadow said:
Most of the cars are way too easy to drive but my advice to you is that try out DRM cars, Ford Capri, BMW M1, BMW 320 or Lotus 85, gated shifter, no auto clutch.
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oh, i was also disappointed w/ the capri when i tried it last night...R3Es kicks it in the dust imo. but the turbo on the 98T is great & completely insane so idk
 
Last time I tried it the FFB in some cars was really good, never understood the pCars hate in that department. Not worth full price though, will add it to my wishlist and wait for the Steam sales.
 
yusupov said:
Spinelli just said its a sim my opinion is totally valid!! :d
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Lol :) I think you may have misunderstood my post, I mean, OK, it's a "sim", but I wouldn't put it in an industrial professional environment. For me, the only sim-engines with the vehicle dynamics modelling with enough depth, "life" and seeming complexity to the vehicle behavior & movements (AKA dynamics) are - for the most part - just rFactor 2 (GSC if it wasn't for RF2) and iRacing.
 
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No track temps?
Scripted tire wear. Weather/temps have little to no effect except for rain.
No real road.
Car physics are "good enough". By that I mean very few cars have a "personality". They tried to make too many cars without giving them the individual detail (physics/handling) they need.

Simcade at best. 7 out of 10.
 
Adrianstealth said:
Agreed some say it's a hardcore sim others say arcade/simcade

They should do a demo, if they were confident of their title you'd think they would. ( as ISI has )
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With 80,000 members before they closed upgrades ( let alone new members + consoles ) why would they need to do a demo. ;)


If this is just to be a thread on physics, tyres, Ai

rF2
==
Ai - 1
FFB - 1
Physics - 1

AC
==
Ai - 3
FFB - 3
Physics - 2

pCars
====
Ai - 2
FFB - 2
Physics - 3

hehe p


So offline I rate pCars 1 point higher then AC in those regards.

Better cockpits, range of vehicles and tracks, career, dynamic day/weather too imo.

Simcade or not stuff like 24 Hour races with 55 cars/driver swaps would be hard enough and plenty of visual immersion. hehehe

I like the range of cars, LMP and GT ready to go, tracks as well.
 
Nice to see this tread has not turned in to a hate tread --- I like it a lot , it's fun and can be very challenging and there still working on rift support , next update we will have direct to HMD and there trying to get 3d menu working but that not a promise :)
 
buddhatree said:
No track temps?
Scripted tire wear. Weather/temps have little to no effect except for rain.
No real road.
Car physics are "good enough". By that I mean very few cars have a "personality". They tried to make too many cars without giving them the individual detail (physics/handling) they need.

Simcade at best. 7 out of 10.
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there are track temps, but for some reason they dont show. supposedly theyre dynamic too but i havent tested this. you can check confirm w/ this -- http://www.tomshane.cz/profiler/

scripted tire wear?? maybe in career mode or something theres a tutorial thing...?? no idea what this is about
 
Spinelli said:
Lol :) I think you may have misunderstood my post, I mean, OK, it's a "sim", but I wouldn't put it in an industrial professional environment. For me, the only sim-engines with the vehicle dynamics modelling with enough depth, "life" and seeming complexity to the vehicle behavior & movements (AKA dynamics) are - for the most part - just rFactor 2 (GSC if it wasn't for RF2) and iRacing.
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i do find that a strange combination since as you kinda said theyre like driving on 2 different planets!
 
yusupov said:
there are track temps, but for some reason they dont show. supposedly theyre dynamic too but i havent tested this. you can check confirm w/ this -- http://www.tomshane.cz/profiler/

scripted tire wear??
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What I meant by scripted tire wear: the tires seem to heat up and wear out no matter what the temps - as if they scripted to show that behavior after a certain time.

Doesn't seem to matter if it's over 100 degrees or cool and cloudy.... the tires warm up and wear out at the same "time".
 
yusupov said:
there are track temps, but for some reason they dont show. supposedly theyre dynamic too but i havent tested this. you can check confirm w/ this -- http://www.tomshane.cz/profiler/

scripted tire wear?? maybe in career mode or something theres a tutorial thing...?? no idea what this is about
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Just love Tom work , it's a wonderful app also dash meter pro is neat .
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yusupov said:
i do find that a strange combination since as you kinda said theyre like driving on 2 different planets!
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Yes, they both are different experiences with different feel but, to me, so is every-single game/sim based on a different engine (RF2, iRacing, Netkar Pro, Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, Richard Burns Rally, etc.). The physics and FFB all are different from one-another, no doubt.
 
Tried the Caper Stock Car around Watkins Glen (I couldn't find any of the ovals that were there in the pre-release versions). That thing handled like a Ferrari! Not a trace of understeer, and very little oversteer. Whoever made the default setups for it really dialed that puppy in. I haven't driven such a fine-handling stock car since Daytona USA. I don't think ISI has anything to worry about in the physics department.

The visuals on the other hand... a race in the rain with heavy fog, then throw in a little night falling? rF2 isn't even on the same planet as pCars. Absolutely stunning!
 
Superdevil said:
Tried the Caper Stock Car around Watkins Glen (I couldn't find any of the ovals that were there in the pre-release versions). That thing handled like a Ferrari! Not a trace of understeer, and very little oversteer. Whoever made the default setups for it really dialed that puppy in. I haven't driven such a fine-handling stock car since Daytona USA. I don't think ISI has anything to worry about in the physics department.

The visuals on the other hand... a race in the rain with heavy fog, then throw in a little night falling? rF2 isn't even on the same planet as pCars. Absolutely stunning!
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This.

FFB/Physics/tyres: meh.
Graphics: stunning.

Edit: not that I had that much time to try pCars yet, just an hour or so of driving, but you can smash the throttle in a Formula A car with cold tyres and be perfectly safe and fly away.

But I like pCars. Even if rF2 is another planet, the driving simulation (tyres/physics) is not as bad as I imagined from the early comments around the net.

Overall game is complete and polished (career mode, leaderboards, etc), quite well done.

Hate the fact you can't drive in pitlane and it's steam based.
 
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DurgeDriven said:
So offline I rate pCars 1 point higher then AC in those regards.
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Are you drunk? pCars AI can't stay ahead of a pregnant yak, stay within track limits, and they spend as much time on their roofs as on wheels...
FFB is lackluster without detail. No triple screen nor OR DK2 support. Bugs left and right like being first in the race and just before finish it says you are last.
This is a released product, game gone gold after 3 delays. Sounds to me like SMS took the money and ran with it.

Some serious patching is needed before this is worth the time over rF2, AC, SCE, R3E, RBR, DiRT Rally, iRacing, and those are only sims I mentioned.
Hopefully they didn't move too many people to pCars2 and World of Speed, so fixes gets here before xmas.
 
I'm not so adventurous now, really happy to stick with one to two sim titles

if I hear though that pcars was at Iracing / rf2 kind of level I'd be wanting to give it a try, no demo is a bad sign I think

same with dirt rally, Richard burns still seems to be the king so I see no point in purchasing
(unless dirt rally gets as least as good as RBR )
 
Found this comment from here: http://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/354818/project_cars_and_its_physics/

"I've been on board as a Senior Member with pCARS since the beginning. A lot of the early builds had great physics, but it slowly went downhill as the game got closer to release. I'm really not sure what happened, but there's a disconnect that I can't quite put my finger on. Braking distances and overall stability through the turns seems inaccurate. I find it far too easy to complete laps at full pace. I was not impressed with the build that I drove a few days ago, which is what I assume is the final product.

As far as realism, iRacing is still top tier.

As far as something to hop into and drive some badass racecars with full steering wheel support, pCARS is pretty decent.

Edit: As /u/arsenicfox stated, this is not the Sim that we were promised. Earlier builds were much more realistic."

Could it be that at some point they choosed to target the game for more casual players. Maybe money men stepped in and said that simulators doesn't make enough money.
 
idk. its possible, it also sounds like that guys as clueless as any of us about what may or may not have happened. theres nothing in what he says but an opinion about early builds...and i dont remember much bragging about the PHYSICS of those builds...it was always screenshots, & talk about the physics being overhauled. now they are overhauled & like it, love it, or leave it. i like it quite a bit.
 
Arguing sim-ness is always fraught with danger, seems to be more opinions than people though that shouldn't be possible and most of them wouldn't know anyway. Hard to argue with the fact ISI have been employed for many years to provide a physics engine for real race team simulators and rF2 has provided us some of the more up to date aspects of that engine, but at the end of the day people will make their own decisions about what 'feels right'. I just wish they'd place less faith in their own opinion and pay more attention to the fact none of these games is coming out and saying they provide the most realistic physics.

Ah well, gives people something to argue about I guess.

Sounds like PCars provides a decent offline experience, something the early sims still had from their arcade predecessors and I'm sure for many is lacking in some more recent titles. Even rF1 out of the box wasn't great for this. If people enjoy that then good for them.

yusupov said:
(that was in all caps but isi dont like that apparently)
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It's a standard forum setting, based on the percentage of capital letters :)
 
yusupov Yes. The thing that he don't like where the physics has gone doesn't necessarily mean anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya-k07jepsQ

That guy on the video said shift 1 and 2 used isi's engine, and that PCars's engine is developed from that.
That thing also doesn't mean much. Maybe i should just buy the game to find out that is it good or not.
 
My experience with pCARS has always been that you need to work really hard at reducing input lag. People will swear till they are blue in the face that the input lag issues were solved in build XXX but in my testing it's impossible to fully minimize the lag even on resent builds. If you don't do some playing around to minimize the lag as much as possible it will have a very disconnected feel. I suspect a lot of the very bad opinions of this sim are actually just fighting massive input lag. Do a YouTube search for any pCARS videos where you can see the animated wheel in line with their real wheel and 9 out of 10 of them will have lag that is out of this world. Even promo videos that they have done with pro drivers display insane lag. It's hard to take a pro drivers options serious when they are provided a rig with 300ms of lag.

So for anyone that gives pCARS a shot. Take a hard look at the lag before totally writing it off. It's still not up to the levels of rF2 IMO, but it's come a long long way from the very beginning..... assuming you sort out the lag.
 
Any ideas on how to sort out that lag? Is maximizing framerate the only way?
Or maybe people are playing it vsync on.
 
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