Korva7
I think that among VR users rf2 definitely might get left behind escpecially if there is other good sims with VR support. If gsc gets vr support it might do it for me.
Vr fits so well with simracing that it would be sad not to use/support it.
Oculus Rift Consumer unit 1 on schedule ( Announced on Twitter )
Vr fits so well with simracing that it would be sad not to use/support it.
PaulG
You might not be wrong. Nonetheless, if you think Assetto Corsa didn't benefit greatly from being the first modern sim to embrace Steam, I think you're under-estimating the power of first mover status.
If I were Reiza, a huge part of my Automobilista campaign would be trying to get featured in the upcoming Valve VR content showcase. And trying to ride the VR buzz for as much publicity as they could possibly muster (this Spring). Publicity is priceless. Especially in a crowded marketplace.
tiffarno
"Left behind" can mean many things including in terms of familiarity with developing for the platform and it's unusual demands / requirements.
ISI are already having to play catch up with a large potential new market, I mean this game is not even on the radar of many vr users and it deserves to be. Games like Project Cars, Dirt Rally, iRacing and of course Assetto Corsa are garnering a lot of attention with, in some cases, limited vr support. Up to half a million vr users in the next 12 months is not an unreasonable estimate, many of whom will be looking for a sim racing experience of some kind. I just think it would be a shame for the best of the lot to be left out of the picture.
Kokomo
Exactly
Guimengo
That's completely different. That's moving into a new distribution stream, it's not adapting new, super niche tech.
About the Reiza part, any developer that can ride on any train that gets publicity, will benefit. pCARS with their huge nVidia partnership, making sure they were present in all those events was huge. If able to partner with a VR manufacturer to get proper implementation, the game can be used by the VR headset company in events. They will be pushing their product by showcasing the tech on the specific game. It's free marketing, it would be foolish to purposefully miss that boat.
You are not wrong there. Out of the potential new market, a very small fraction would be willing to invest a few hundred more to get a wheel and pedals. pCARS, DiRT Rally, iR and AC have the benefit of their content being homogeneous for the vast majority, meaning the quality - visual or gameplay - won't vary much from one piece to another. rF2 is behind in that area, there is a lot of updating to be done on graphics and driving.
I can't speak on gamepad driving quality but adequate support for that is very important too. I know pC was fine, DiRT too, no idea about iRacing or Assetto as I never tried with my gamepad.
tiffarno
This thread just appeared on the Oculus subreddit today (it's not my post). The comment and the responses are completely typical of anyone with vr experience. It's a game changer and once you've tried it, most can't go back.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/41u85i/i_just_realized_oculus_has_ruined_my_ability_to/
Sadly no mention of rf2.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/41u85i/i_just_realized_oculus_has_ruined_my_ability_to/
Sadly no mention of rf2.
gkz
VR means virtual reality. And everything we want is to be as close to reality as possible with a racing sim in sound,physics,graphics etc. Im really don t understand that so many ppl need to try vr to understand it and than make posts likes this. I mean the name vr = u sit in the car and simulate a virtual reality should be enough to understand what it is. For me it was 6 Month before i order the dk 2 i new exactly what i get and was only scared about the resolution to repace a monitor. But i knew that it will be only the res not the technology.
Superdevil
The term Virtual Reality has been around long before the current headsets. When I think of "VR", I think of walking into a high end arcade in the early 90’s and seeing people wearing these big, crazy enclosed helmets, moving around awkwardly while everyone else laughed at them. There was a giant screen mirroring what the player saw, and the graphics left a lot to be desired. It was far from a game changer (can't tell you what year that fad left the arcade scene) AND it was expensive to boot!
Now obviously the new headsets are light years (well, at least 25 years) ahead of that old equipment, but just calling it "Virtual Reality" does not guarantee a mind-blowing experience. Been there, done that.
The Rift probably IS amazing, but until I try a it with my own eyes, I can easily say it looks cool, but I’m in no hurry to drop $600US on one. Anybody wants to send me theirs to try out, I'm game!
vittorio
Same here. Simracing with monitors and without VR HMD for me now is like racing with a gamecontroller instead of a wheel. For me its so unrealistic now that i'm not interested anymore. I have to wait for VR support
(same situation when the motors of my racing wheel broke, i had to wait to get a repaired one. Zero interest to race with a gamecontroller)Joeymaurone
Never tried one Superdevil?
For me it was mind blowing the first month, just spent hours looking at dashboards, gauges, and even the fabric of a seat (yeah, that's me).... then raced a thousand times until my mind was used to that new "standard".. after that , the rift is the natural way to race, is incredible to approach to a monaco wall in a little formula and actually feel that you are in a tiny object and the walls are actually taller than you.. or approach to corkscrew in laguna seca.
I don't know , racing thru a tiny window called monitor it's not for me anymore, that's why i enter everyday here.. hoping for some news and keeping the faith
For me it was mind blowing the first month, just spent hours looking at dashboards, gauges, and even the fabric of a seat (yeah, that's me).... then raced a thousand times until my mind was used to that new "standard".. after that , the rift is the natural way to race, is incredible to approach to a monaco wall in a little formula and actually feel that you are in a tiny object and the walls are actually taller than you.. or approach to corkscrew in laguna seca.
I don't know , racing thru a tiny window called monitor it's not for me anymore, that's why i enter everyday here.. hoping for some news and keeping the faith
Kokomo
Same here. Simracing with monitors and without VR HMD for me now is like racing with a gamecontroller instead of a wheel. For me its so unrealistic now that i'm not interested anymore. I have to wait for VR support
Good analogy, and your story is pretty similar to mine
stonec
Cv1 needs directx 11? This sounds scary. Yes rF2 is DX9 and i think ISI is not willing to move to DX 11
Oculus SDK deprecated DX9 support around a year ago. So while it might work on DX9 with some hacky methods, it probably makes no sense for ISI to implement it before moving to DX 11.
Depco
The term Virtual Reality has been around long before the current headsets. When I think of "VR", I think of walking into a high end arcade in the early 90’s and seeing people wearing these big, crazy enclosed helmets, moving around awkwardly while everyone else laughed at them. There was a giant screen mirroring what the player saw, and the graphics left a lot to be desired. It was far from a game changer (can't tell you what year that fad left the arcade scene) AND it was expensive to boot!
Now obviously the new headsets are light years (well, at least 25 years) ahead of that old equipment, but just calling it "Virtual Reality" does not guarantee a mind-blowing experience. Been there, done that.
The Rift probably IS amazing, but until I try a it with my own eyes, I can easily say it looks cool, but I’m in no hurry to drop $600US on one. Anybody wants to send me theirs to try out, I'm game!
I suspect this is the sentiment of many Sim racers. Given the average age of serious sim racers is over 40, and probably pushing 50, it is no surprise that many have been though the VR craze of the 1990's when the tech sucked and everyone looked dumb for having tried it. Those times left a bad taste in everyone's mouth for "VR". This is exactly the mindset that Oculus is trying to turn around.
I was fortunate enough to not have been able to try out the 90's headsets as I was too poor to go to the arcades and I didn't know anyone who actually picked up the Gameboy VR. I now own a version of google cardboard (batter plastic housing with better lenses using a galaxy Note 4) and have tried the Gear VR with a Galaxy Note 5. I was blown away. I have since tried playing PC games on my cardboard using Trinus VR and several programs used to make the Side by Side images necessary for the Cardboard holder. This has been successful in various degrees. Although still not perfect I have been impressed with the tech we have now.
Every person I have heard talk about their DK2 experience (with the exception of the pompus ass Darin Ganji) has been absolutely awestruck by the technology. This tells me it has come of age and that it is the next logical step for Sim racers. The only thing holding me back at this time is the $600 price tag. My wife has actually given me permission to get it, but I cant bring myself to spend that kind of cash on a product so young in its development. Of course if one were to end up in my lap as a gift I wouldn't say no.
People will be buying VR headsets for more than just Driving experiences and games. Look at the software that is being bundled with the Rift. I would like to think I am a typical older gamer. I play some RPG's, a couple FPS when the mood strikes me, and some MMO's as well. All of these games will be developing for VR in some respect. If I own a Rift/Vive I will naturally gravitate to the games that have support for the headset I own. That all said, this "Niche" market we all belong to (sim racers) tends to be willing to spend big money on our hobby. I see VR headsets being part of that hardware purchase along with a good wheel and pedal setup and rig to mount it on.
Back to my original point. VR has a sour reputation for old timers and for a good reason. But this is not the old times and the technology has finally caught up with the vision of what VR can be. I think it is time for developers to embrace it. The wait and see crowd will get left behind and I certainly hope rF2 is not in that group. I'll still play rF2 as it is the only sim I currently keep coming back to like a junkie needing a fix. But I see less people coming to rF2 once they have a VR headset and other options are available.
With reference to DX11... That is ISI's own fault for not keeping up with the times. "we have nothing to gain from DX11" - Rubbish. I suppose all their computers still run Windows XP as well.
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Juergen-BY
Some interesting aspects around the question, buy or not buy
Narrowbackwing
^^^^^ ahahahahahah
Juergen-BY
the more serious one:
maniac618
This sums it up perfectly, it's the VR way or no way....
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/41u85i/i_just_realized_oculus_has_ruined_my_ability_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/41u85i/i_just_realized_oculus_has_ruined_my_ability_to/
vittorio
Never tried one Superdevil?
For me it was mind blowing the first month, just spent hours looking at dashboards, gauges, and even the fabric of a seat (yeah, that's me).... then raced a thousand times until my mind was used to that new "standard".. after that , the rift is the natural way to race, is incredible to approach to a monaco wall in a little formula and actually feel that you are in a tiny object and the walls are actually taller than you.. or approach to corkscrew in laguna seca.
I don't know , racing thru a tiny window called monitor it's not for me anymore, that's why i enter everyday here.. hoping for some news and keeping the faith
This is indeed very interesting, same here. When I first simraced with rf2 (immediately when first beta was released) with historic F1,2,3 @ Spa i was a lot impressed due to physics and FFB. But after some time it became standard and its very hard for me to except anything less (I have problems racing in e.g. Assetto Corsa due to IMHO a lot less advanced physics and FFB). Even more with VR compared to monitors (for me VR is a lot more advanced technology, its even not comparable to monitors). I simply can't go back to monitors anymore, VR got standard.
And it's interesting how natural and advanced rfactor2 graphics is in VR - no artificial and stupid effects like lense flare, depth of field and ... things you never want in VR because they are artificial and disturbing. It was so incredible when I did my first league race AT NIGHT in a Corvette @ Sebring in VR. The lightning and shadows were awesome (and black is a perfect black in Oculus DK2), cars behind you lit up your interior and dirt on the windshield gets more visible but it doesn't disturb much in VR when eyes focus behind the windshield ... it was incredible!
So my dream combo is rfactor2 + VR and I will wait! (because of IMHO best physics, best FFB, best natural graphics ..)
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gkz
i think u have a long time waiting ^^
metalnwood
I am in the same boat, when I got my DK2 15 months ago I gave up on anything that wouldnt use it, that left AC and iracing.
iracing implementation is as good as i have wanted and with some of their built in macro stuff pit stops are a breeze with voice comms which complement the rift perfectly. I would be happy with any sim that does it the same as iracing, hint hint.
Two things came together at about the same time. I got the OSW and iracing went from what some would call iceracing to as good as I could ask for as well so I havent lost anything without rf2. I still am at the forums regularly though, waiting and hoping because I like all the sims.
iracing implementation is as good as i have wanted and with some of their built in macro stuff pit stops are a breeze with voice comms which complement the rift perfectly. I would be happy with any sim that does it the same as iracing, hint hint.
Two things came together at about the same time. I got the OSW and iracing went from what some would call iceracing to as good as I could ask for as well so I havent lost anything without rf2. I still am at the forums regularly though, waiting and hoping because I like all the sims.
gkz
iracing has a buged useless physic engine. the understeer problem makes it not worth to waste one sek. on it. For this price the 10 years old engine is a joke.............
PaulG
Have you played it recently? I used to hate that game with a burning passion. It was obvious it was built on Grand Prix Legends because, heresy aside, that game had godawful physics too. iRacing truly did deserve the hate it got. But I think it's gotten quite good of late (IMO).
gkz
This has nothing to do with hate. It is a fact that iracing has a broking understeer physic part which gives u the same understeer in highspeed corners on every car. Go on an flat and oval track put any car u want on hit than turn ur wheel in highspeed corners complete in the corner on full throttle. The result = every car on every setup has the same understeer. For example would to try this with a ford spec in real life which is a low downforce car u would spin out. But in iracing u reach a point where the engine can t do the physics right and just gives every car the same understeer. If u understand this point and a a little bit brain iracing is boring and not dynamic driving.
PaulG
I like to think I have a little bit of brain, although I've never heard this before (so I obviously never understood it before). Of course, I never race ovals either. So maybe that's my defense.
Perhaps it'll be addressed when they finally make the switch to the DX11 engine.
Perhaps it'll be addressed when they finally make the switch to the DX11 engine.
metalnwood
Then take it as a good example of how I and a lot of other people would go for that with the immersion of the rift over rf2
I am ignoring your statement on purpose as my point has nothing to do with physics but with the implementation of the rift and I dont mean to sidetrack the tread this much.
Panigale
I'll believe VR is the way to go when I see the big teams drop their projectors for it. And I'm not holding my breath for that to happen...
The sim world is full of people confusing an entertainment environment (the majority have no real experience) with a training environment. Nothing wrong with that but I've seen this cry before with 3D and that wasn't adopted by any of the professional race teams that I'm aware of.
3D monitors and small triple screens are not ideal (I've owned them) and are not used by F1 teams or prototype teams. BasePerformance doesn't have any examples of those setups either. In fact their cheapest sim for home use is an isolated single projector which is how I have my setup configured. Yet every year we see triples+3D rigs at CES because they impress the crowds and have a lot of entertainment value. And if some forum user thinks that is the best thing ever then hey why does F1 not catch on right? LOL.
I'm not hating on VR or 3D or triples (the hobby should be about putting a smile on your face) and setting up an good closed off projection based rig is a PITA and takes up a lot of space. I'll gladly move to VR if that is proven to be a better tool for the job. But I think the VR impression in regards to sim racing has a good portion to do with people having poor setups that find themselves immersed and isolated for the very first time in a sim. Either way I'm looking forward to trying VR myself in a handful of months.
The sim world is full of people confusing an entertainment environment (the majority have no real experience) with a training environment. Nothing wrong with that but I've seen this cry before with 3D and that wasn't adopted by any of the professional race teams that I'm aware of.
3D monitors and small triple screens are not ideal (I've owned them) and are not used by F1 teams or prototype teams. BasePerformance doesn't have any examples of those setups either. In fact their cheapest sim for home use is an isolated single projector which is how I have my setup configured. Yet every year we see triples+3D rigs at CES because they impress the crowds and have a lot of entertainment value. And if some forum user thinks that is the best thing ever then hey why does F1 not catch on right? LOL.
I'm not hating on VR or 3D or triples (the hobby should be about putting a smile on your face) and setting up an good closed off projection based rig is a PITA and takes up a lot of space. I'll gladly move to VR if that is proven to be a better tool for the job. But I think the VR impression in regards to sim racing has a good portion to do with people having poor setups that find themselves immersed and isolated for the very first time in a sim. Either way I'm looking forward to trying VR myself in a handful of months.
Depco
I don't think the immersion of vr headsets can be compared to the immersion of triples, projectors, 3d tvs. They are world's apart. It is a completely different experience.
I don't expect wide adoption by F1 teams yet. But I suspect it will happen when the developers figure out how to get past the issues with putting the drivers actual hand movent into the simulation.
But I could be wrong too.
I don't expect wide adoption by F1 teams yet. But I suspect it will happen when the developers figure out how to get past the issues with putting the drivers actual hand movent into the simulation.
But I could be wrong too.
metalnwood
Completely different purposes when being used as training aids. Of course a F1 team is not going to use VR over an already excellent setup when their main priority is different from ours. They have very complex wheels that most sim racers dont have to deal with. They use a lot of their training to get familiar with those wheels and managing settings etc. In those specific cases VR doesnt make sense when you are trying to work with complex real world items.
We are not that market so I am not going to worry about waiting until a F1 team uses VR. We have different priorities.
The rift is much more immersive than projectors but not so good for real world training that involved familiarity with real cockpits.
The rift is very well suited for the majority of sim racers
DrR1pper
Ferrari F1 does but with 3D projectors.
@37 seconds in you can see fernando put on large 3d glasses and then later on you can see the characteristic double image of stereoscopic 3d on the projector screen.
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Panigale
Ferrari is using 3D with projectors not small monitors but I see your updated your response to correct it. It is also an isolated environment but hey you found they use 3D so that is one out of three, props.
Cool but I wonder if it is still in use or used by other teams? Is anyone is even making new 3D enabled projectors? Now I'm bummed, I kind of want to give it a try with a projector because it sucked on a small monitor but a quick search of new LED pros from LG don't even have the 3D feature anymore. I know after a few IMAX 3D movies I was happy to go back to the normal experience.
As for the other comments, I'm all for VR, like I said I'll have one myself in a few months but I'm not convinced this is the holy grail for sim racing. I sim race as a supplement for track days not as a replacement. I want to get into my rig and at least feel like I'm at the track and thus far only a projector setup that is either in a dark room or isolated (covered) begins to accomplish that.
If it is the best thing since slice bread then I'll be a fan, maybe just not as rabid as some of the current crop of adopters.
Cool but I wonder if it is still in use or used by other teams? Is anyone is even making new 3D enabled projectors? Now I'm bummed, I kind of want to give it a try with a projector because it sucked on a small monitor but a quick search of new LED pros from LG don't even have the 3D feature anymore. I know after a few IMAX 3D movies I was happy to go back to the normal experience.
As for the other comments, I'm all for VR, like I said I'll have one myself in a few months but I'm not convinced this is the holy grail for sim racing. I sim race as a supplement for track days not as a replacement. I want to get into my rig and at least feel like I'm at the track and thus far only a projector setup that is either in a dark room or isolated (covered) begins to accomplish that.
If it is the best thing since slice bread then I'll be a fan, maybe just not as rabid as some of the current crop of adopters.
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WhiteShadow
Benq, Samsung, Acer etc. have 3D monitors. 3D with triple screens is best solution to sim racing and are going to bee that still many years to come so simple is that. The con is that 3D monitors cost a lot and you must also have top end PC to render 3x 120hz. Second con is that rFactor2 dont have multi CPU support which makes it impossible to get normal game experience in of this game.
PaulG
Oh, really? I love 3D Vision, but that statement is absolutely false. (regarding many years). 3D Vision has been unofficially moved to legacy standing by Nvidia and all the new monitors have basically dropped 3D Vision for G-Sync (since G-Sync is in demand and sells monitors at a large premium, while 3D Vision is a significant expense that doesn't bring any additional demand for the product). Sucks but true.
gkz
this is a good vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-UR3FVH1E its maybe not simrace but explain a lot of what vr is
WhiteShadow
What are you talking about? monitors listed below has GSYNC, 3D and lightboost support. You can just log inn to Samsung, BENQ, Philips etc. web and find brand new 3D monitor any time you like and you can do that still many years to come. Claim that "3D Vision has been unofficially moved to legacy standing by Nvidia" dont belong to public forums and where the hell did you get that info (unofficially). From you imagination or are you working to Nvidia.
ASUS VG248QE G-SYNC 24″144Hz GSYNC / ULMB / PWM-Free
BENQ XL2420G 144Hz GSYNC / ULMB / PWM-Free
AOC G2460PG 144Hz GSYNC / ULMB / PWM-Free
Philips 272G5DYEB 144Hz GSYNC / ULMB / PWM-Free
gkz
Too bad resolution to flight sims just forget it. If you are using VR to flight sims you are going to loose every game
did u test cv1 in flight sims ?
gkz
Yes and I know how much every pixel is worth in flight sims
which games u test with cv 1 ?
tiffarno
"Yes and I know how much every pixel is worth in flight sims"
By 'yes' I assume you mean 'no'?
By 'yes' I assume you mean 'no'?
halono
I ordered a CV1. I sure hope rfactor2 has VR on their future plans. I will for sure leave this sim if they don't. I understand of course that I do not represent the majority.