So....who has PCars?

Excellent point spinelli, its always going to be on track dynamics that determine a games sim status, and there's no doubt rf2 and SCE are 2 of the best in that regard, as for pcars/shift3, it never felt or drove like a sim, and some people can't distinguish between the simple simon dynamics of pcars and proper pc simulators, either because they stupidly self define a sim so as to enable graphics whoring, or because they have nfi of what detailed physics means.
 
Introducing well known collision bugs to judge driving simulation is funny. What are you trying to prove?
We all know that rF2 body model regarding collision is one of the aspects that needs some refinement after these years.
However the way the car interacts with the road has nothing to do with that.

From the first release rF2 has introduced flex chassis (initially required for karts), new steering system (introduced with clios so probably for better simulation or FWD cars) and CPM (proper oval racing ture simulation). Hopefully when the build for Stock cars is released, collision model will get a nice polishing since car accidents are quite common and is important to have a nice simulation of that as well for a complete and immerse racing experience.
 
F2Chump said:
Excellent point spinelli, its always going to be on track dynamics that determine a games sim status, and there's no doubt rf2 and SCE are 2 of the best in that regard, as for pcars/shift3, it never felt or drove like a sim, and some people can't distinguish between the simple simon dynamics of pcars and proper pc simulators, either because they stupidly self define a sim so as to enable graphics whoring, or because they have nfi of what detailed physics means.
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Dear F2Chump,

I am happy to report that after thorough considerations and lengthy meetings you have become eligible to be the first - and only - to join my ignore-list. Your continuous trolling is 4chan-worthy and is both admirable and successful to some questionable extend.

Bare in mind that in no way this means I agree or disagree with you, your opinions might be valid and scientific - I am not in the least interested in finding this out - but sadly I am no longer able to read the content you are poring into this world, nor am I prepared to let it decrease the already diminishing 'fun' I am having reading through similar content that is being posted here on a daily basis ever since AC/PCars came out.

Thank you for defending rfactor 2 with such vigorously, I am sure ISI is proud to have such dedicated followers and their new found ability to sit back whilst their customers take down the opposition with great precision, absolute truth and unprecedented heroism.


I hope you don't take this too personal, i'm sure you are a nice person in real life.

Yours sincerely,

Denstjiro Ganriu
 
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F2Chump said:
Excellent point spinelli, its always going to be on track dynamics that determine a games sim status, and there's no doubt rf2 and SCE are 2 of the best in that regard, as for pcars/shift3, it never felt or drove like a sim, and some people can't distinguish between the simple simon dynamics of pcars and proper pc simulators, either because they stupidly self define a sim so as to enable graphics whoring, or because they have nfi of what detailed physics means.
Click to expand...

Gonna say it as I see it.

What a knob!
 
Denstjiro said:
Thank you for defending rfactor 2 with such vigorously, I am sure ISI is proud to have such dedicated followers and their new found ability to sit back whilst their customers take down the opposition with great precision, absolute truth and unprecedented heroism.
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LOL
 
Juste lock every thread that is not related to rfactor 2. They are not bringing anything here.
 
The facts are, only a handful of people value detailed physics and finely tuned ffb, the rest focus on graphics+hilarious and pointless career modes, so to give ISI a little credit, that's what they've done with rf2, not that I'm saying rf2 is perfect, not by a longshot, but there's no question rf2 is a sim first and foremost.

The funny thing about pcars is that SMS failed to deliver a sim, and by all accounts have released not just a buggy game, but something unfinished, so it seems the experiment only succeeded in lining the pockets of a number of investors who shamelessly hype the buggy unfinished mess.
 
Rf2 was a buggy mess at release, did u moan then. Pcars isn't as bad as what you go on about.
Its not rf2 but dam its better than the rest!!

Unless you race a car for a living or even been in one at speed, your opinions mean jack!
 
msportdan said:
Rf2 was a buggy mess at release, did u moan then. Pcars isn't as bad as what you go on about.
Its not rf2 but dam its better than the rest!!

Unless you race a car for a living or even been in one at speed, your opinions mean jack!
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Actually, I'm mates with Chronus of GTR2 reborn fame.

I used to own/fix and drive at crazy speeds, any number of Australian Muscle Cars including my own 1974 SLR Torana with a 340cid stroker engine, and after that hand grenaded, I got Ron Richards to build me a powerful 308cid{Richards worked on some of Dick Johnsons engines etc}.
I've driven all sorts of "tough" 400hp muscle cars, with weights varying from 1400kg to 1700kg, I've also driven any number of nimble sports cars including a newish 1995 MR2, which was a handling machine compared to my heavyweight V8's.

I have an interest in science and philosophy and a healthy respect for reality, as such, when I make a determination, it's based on all of that plus my extensive conversations with a very competent modder{Chronus}, so when people try and pass off pcars as anything but Shift3, I really just shake my head in amazement, as I suspect some of the cars have data out by a significant margin, and IMO, once things exceed reality by an excessive degree, it can no longer qualify as a simulator.

I'm pro simulation, so I give sims props and express dismay that people buy into the marketing slogans regarding the current gen of games.....are you forgetting that SMS's Ian Bell described Shift2 as "the most realistic physics ever".....that game was pure simcade, and simcade is all SMS make of late, for example, here's their last 4 games...

2009...Shift
2011..Shift2
2013..Ferrari{horrible simcade}
2015..pcars aka Shift3.
 
F2Chump said:
Actually, I'm mates with Chronus of GTR2 reborn fame.
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He always sounds like he's got an agenda to me : gmotor1 (which he happens to have done a mod with) is the greatest simulator in the whole wide world for ever and ever.

Although to be fair, Niels Heusinkveld, who's probably did the best mods, thinks similar, but you can't fail to respect him. He says the the rf2 tyre model is too complicated to understand btw. I mean, there's all these parameters, and they interact, which makes it really hard to know what the result will be in any situation. So more complexity isn't necesarily more reality. Neils says him and Aris at kunos share the same philosphy. I assume you include A.C. in these "current gen" simcade sims?? Cos, Greger Huttu and the rest of Teamredline are spending a lot of time in simcade if it is.

They're all sims. All got weaknesses and fudges. The really complicated tyre models are manufacturers' and they don't run in realtime. And they're probably wrong too.

Best to have something simple you can understand and tweak to fit the data. And on that topic here's a post from iRacing forum you'll enjoy:

" Kunos' office is at Vallelunga Circuit. The Formula Abarth is used as a school car at Vallelunga. The CSAI uses AC as their simulator for the school at Vallelunga. They have basically unlimited access to the car and data of not just the real car but the ability to directly compare AC to the real thing with numerous drivers. It's far and above anything iRacing or anyone else is even able to do."

pCars is a "sim". Silly fanboyism to claim only rF2 or something else is.
 
I did a few more laps the other day in the Escort, and found that although you could go too fast driving badly, I did go even faster driving more realistically - as I would interpret it. I'm sure it's not as bad as some claim.
 
eltidi said:
Juste lock every thread that is not related to rfactor 2. They are not bringing anything here.
Click to expand...

They can be helpful and informative though, if it wasn't for the spiteful jibberhabber.
I'm still able to filter through that though and imo as sim-enthusiasts - as the majority here surely is - why not discuss?
 
Old Hat said:
I did a few more laps the other day in the Escort, and found that although you could go too fast driving badly, I did go even faster driving more realistically - as I would interpret it. I'm sure it's not as bad as some claim.
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that and it's a SEXY piece of carporn, might buy pCars just to look at it all day!
 
Denstjiro said:
They can be helpful and informative though, if it wasn't for the spiteful jibberhabber.
I'm still able to filter through that though and imo as sim-enthusiasts - as the majority here surely is - why not discuss?
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;)



ISI will go Steam and move past DirectX9.

For insight....

Getting a idea what rF2 lovers do and don't like about AC and pCars is not a bad thing.


-------

I pretty sick of listening to wishlists and whinges for last gen sims, they done and dusted all 3.

I was happy with rF2 3 years ago, gees if I still had to justify myself after 3 years I would give up. Same goes for AC and pCars you had oinks to use them.

I am more interested what next gen brings AC2, PC2, rF3
 
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msportdan said:
Rf2 was a buggy mess at release, did u moan then.
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Yes, lots of people did. Lots of people still do, and spread misinformation like rF2 is still in the state it was upon release. Must be enjoyable to do it.
 
DurgeDriven said:
Getting a idea what rF2 lovers do and don't like about AC and pCars is not a bad thing.
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I don't see an issue with discussion either. I learn things... What a shocker. :)

If you don't want the thread here, your best bet is to not reply to said thread, and it'll disappear. Replying to complain in the thread bumps it for further discussion.
 
FauxPo said:
He always sounds like he's got an agenda to me : gmotor1 (which he happens to have done a mod with) is the greatest simulator in the whole wide world for ever and ever.
else is.
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His agenda if you want to call it that is promoting simulations, obviously there are various limitations to what we can achieve with laptops and non DD wheels, but that doesn't mean many of the values aren't extremely close to their real world counterparts.

Neils and chronus like the rf1/evo engine because of it's capabilities.
chronus modded GTR Evolutions C6R and he tightened everything up and gave the car incredible feel and control under throttle and brakes.....and whilst some of ACs cars are close, pcars is a joke in comparison.

As I've mentioned many times over the years, true sim physics are time consuming, and this is why sims usually have smaller carlists, its not just licencing costs.
 
F2Chump said:
As I've mentioned many times over the years, true sim physics are time consuming, and this is why sims usually have smaller carlists, its not just licencing costs.
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Indeed. Also worth noting that only Codemasters, Kunos, LFS, Papyrus/iRacing (who bought the NR2003 engine) and ISI developed from scratch with their engines among the devs I readily think of. Most other devs either use our engine hardly modified, slightly modified, very modified or have re-written most of the code (in an evolutionary process through previous titles) so although it is their engine, the ISI code remains in places (and could be COMPLETELY different), and they certainly might not have got there as fast without the leg up.

Anyone who licenses our engines instantly saves themselves about six years of trial and error, staffing costs, etc. It is NOT easy. That is one of the reasons Kunos should probably get more respect around here IMHO. And why the lack of understanding about what has been achieved with rF2 can seem frustrating.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
And why the lack of understanding about what has been achieved with rF2 can seem frustrating.
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You should consider hiring Chronus, even part time, get him to build more cars......his technical background is theoretical physics and is typically employed doing high level computer simulations.
He also has a G27, so his work was built around that wheel{which I also have} and it's quite incredible how much more feel can be introduced without compromising the G27 ffb motor.

Snap him up before Reiza get him, lol.

If you're interested in speaking with him, just shoot me a PM and I'll pass along the details.

I'd love a rf2 1979 Brock Torana and 1983 Dick Johnson 351 with Chronus physics.....2 tanks he'd know how to build beautifully.

I hope something could come from this, otherwise please consider hiring him in future for your next project.

Thx Tim.
 
I thought Chronus can't stand rF2. Isn't he that gtr2 modder guy? From what I can tell from these old modders is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Niels for example seems to recieve a lot of respect but yet refuses to learn new things. IF ISI is looking for new blood they should look for that, new guys. Forget the old timers.
 
We bring mods in occasionally, but they come from those modding rF2.
 
Jamie Shorting said:
I thought Chronus can't stand rF2. Isn't he that gtr2 modder guy? From what I can tell from these old modders is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Niels for example seems to recieve a lot of respect but yet refuses to learn new things. IF ISI is looking for new blood they should look for that, new guys. Forget the old timers.
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I think Neils proved with his Corvettes that he knows a thing or 2, also, reading his interview at RD, he seems more focused on HW.
 
F2Chump said:
I think Neils proved with his Corvettes that he knows a thing or 2, also, reading his interview at RD, he seems more focused on HW.
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Exactly that NOT!!!
Does Niels Corvette in rF1 has (from a car-behavior/physics standpoint) anything to do with the Corvette that ISI did in rF2 ????? Eeehm, no.
If you doubt, make the comparison now!

The most overrated modder ever!
 
Back on topic, why the f. we can't drive the stupid moron car in the pit lane, command the speed limiter and so on?

Why some developers make so very straight they'll deliver a arcade title with no questions about it?

How I hate it, Arcadetto Corsa is the same stupid thing, no garage, no pit driving, wtf...
 
Satangoss said:
Back on topic, why the f. we can't drive the stupid moron car in the pit lane, command the speed limiter and so on?

Why some developers make so very straight they'll deliver a arcade title with no questions about it?

How I hate it, Arcadetto Corsa is the same stupid thing, no garage, no pit driving, wtf...
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As far as a know manual pit lane control will be added in a later update for pCARS.
 
hexagramme said:
As far as a know manual pit lane control will be added in a later update for pCARS.
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Good to know, because the automatic pit is so lame... In addition AC has no garage for some extraterrestrial reason. The cars spawn in the middle of pit lane. Lame, lame.
 
Satangoss said:
Back on topic, why the f. we can't drive the stupid moron car in the pit lane, command the speed limiter and so on?

Why some developers make so very straight they'll deliver a arcade title with no questions about it?

How I hate it, Arcadetto Corsa is the same stupid thing, no garage, no pit driving, wtf...
Click to expand...

I'd not mind having auto-pitlane if it means I get to "calmly" click through my pit settings and strategy.
 
Satangoss said:
Good to know, because the automatic pit is so lame... In addition AC has no garage for some extraterrestrial reason. The cars spawn in the middle of pit lane. Lame, lame.
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You can't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure SMS mentioned at some point (post release) that manual pit lane control would be implemented.
Let's cross out fingers for that one. :)
 
peterchen said:
From physics?
And how come that car is that different??
Don´t tell me because of difference between 1 and 2!
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The basic handling isn't that different, it's all about the tire model. The HDV file and other car parameters you can almost straight copy from rF1 mod to rF2, as there aren't a lot differences. I bet those are 99% same from Niels mod, only big new thing is chassis flex. Rest is all about the tire model, which makes any car feel better on rF2 than rF1 imo.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
It pretty much is exactly that. There are a lot of changes between rFactor 1 and 2.
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I mean to remember that I read somewhere that ISI made the physics for the Corvette.?
Same with the NSX, not?
Would be a shame if ISI haven´t double-checked data.
Double-confused, because I thought Niels never made any rF2-physics, what was pretty much the initial statement that leads to the topic NH.....:confused:
 
Jamie Shorting said:
From what I can tell from these old modders is you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Forget the old timers.
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If Sergio Loro can make decent tracks and cars I would be happy to have many more old GPL modders in rF2. :)

Their insight and experience in Historics would be invaluable.
 
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