Assetto Corsa Respectful Comparison

[Gonzas]

Just visually, and they said that dynamic weather would not be in 1.0 version, and like that, lots of things.

Ah, and that dynamic change of visual rubber, It's not dynamic

mother of god, is dynamic, and will affect grip on next updates, before the 1.0, and talking "about lot of things" , im still waiting for what was showed and advertised TWO YEARS ago, like vertex damage with damage layer in shaders, like rain on the windshields, and a lot of things more.

is great to see someone reporting on AC forum that you can not open a door in the showroom, and was fixed in one update half an hour after the report (in a sunday!). I know people who waited 15 months to have working mirrors in some cars.

are you using 107%, 0%, 0% in logitech drivers, and you are talking about FFB?.. pues cojonudo, but you should take your time and use recommended setup in drivers and in game as you do in rFactor 2.

i really want to love rFactor 2 , honestly , i bought it the first day, and start to learn how to mod it, and i did it , but i can not play it, im sorry and i tried hundred of times to clean my mind and try to spend some great time on it, spend some ( a lot of money) on 3 24'' monitors and one 7970 matrix who is getting old and never was able to give me a sunrise playing rfactor2, low FPS, never smooth, stuttering, this 342 version is way much better ,but i have still to live with black "artifacts" on the circuit bad HDR wrong colours, and (a lot of things).

AC have more grip than necessary , i feel it more on the e30, but i can play it, and with a sunrise.
i dont understand why a car with WIDE soft slicks like the corvette , can slide at 60 km/h in that way, ok the track is green, needs rubber, maybe the grip with rubber on the road is ok , but something do not fit, at least for me and maybe im wrong
rF2 have a lot of potential,i hope it will be the best game ever soon, i hope that someday it will be the simulator it deserves to be, but for me, it does not work , and i tried and tried.

probably im not respectful, sorry .

 

[tsunamibr]

I have no idea what you are talking.

netKar PRo uses a Pacejka model according to public sources, eg

http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators

and according to what Kunos himself posted in a italian forum years ago.

I asked a simple question about AC and i miss to understand why my question sounds to you as a "false assumption" (you quoted me).

You can't be serious. Quoting wiki as a reliable source?
If you indeed did see Kunos posting anything related to what you allege, please, provide the link.

Here, what about this as a source:

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/612987-pacejka-tire-model-question/

Kunos about Pacejka:
Does most of the racing games nowadays tend to implement this tire model ?

netKar PRO, iRacing, rFactor, RBR, LFS, CARS, Shift.. no
Forza and GT .. perhaps in some simplified version

 

[Timpie Claessens]

I almost don't want to post this, have you never played any sports? These guys were not sim potatos, and I say that as part of that potato group so no offense...

Before GT Academy, you were no stranger to cars. What experience did you have?

My father and brother were racers. My brother was the Formula Toyota champ and was one of the most successful young drivers during the early 2000s. I tried to follow in his steps but the lack of budget left me to do some karting and some racing in single-seaters.

Read more: http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/interviews/5-questions-with-lucas-ordonez#ixzz2kStxoEk7

Offcourse I played sports, and yes you're probably thinking: "I guess if he was good at FIFA he'd think he could be... some famous soccerplayer". No, not really.
We do have it a bit different then the FIFA player dont we? We have the actual controls (depends on how far you want to go) and games dedicated to simulate the racing and alot of aspects around that going from learning how to create setups, what parts affect what, ...
I barely go karting with my buddies anymore because it's not fun being Vettel, a friend of mine drives an actual Rotax kart in competition (his dad owns a major transport company-> the money) and last time we went to one of those public karting tracks I beat his best lap by half a second on a 57s track.
Not saying I'm the second coming of Schumacher but it doesn't mean because you're really racing that you're as good as it can get.

 

[Esteve Rueda]

mother of god, is dynamic, and will affect grip on next updates, before the 1.0, and talking "about lot of things" , im still waiting for what was showed and advertised TWO YEARS ago, like vertex damage with damage layer in shaders, like rain on the windshields, and a lot of things more.

It's not dynamic, test It, just a predefined texture that appears in the same place and doesn't matter where you are drivng... and... do you spin at 60km/h with Corvette? just learn to drive because I can turn it at 20km/h, and also at 240km/h with no problems in any track and as me, every driver who drive with me in the same races. I can't spin AC F Abarth even doing zigzag at 190km/h with 3 front wing, 4 rear wing, way more stiff suspension than default, and softer front suspension to produce oversteer, and also changed 10% power diff lock to 50%, I only can spin It working hard to do It, I saw real cars spin with way less "stress".

And not, with some cars It's not weird to spin at 80km/h if you are driving like no handed and not using the correct technique.

 

[TIG_green]

Some first impressions:

- Cars feel like they actually have weight unlike some cars in rf2 in some situations.
- Also sensed some understeer when I tried to push but maybe that's the car characteristics (tried Ferrari and X-bow)
- I was expecting that it would be really easy to catch slides based on the talks here but it wasn't, in some occasions even harder than in rf2. Maybe I should use manual clutch
- Didn't really felt lock-ups so that's one of the most important things to be improven ffb wise.
- Looked really good, felt smooth (no idea what my fps was, where do I see it?). Maxed everything... not sure which AA setting I should use (there was a setting where I had to choose from two options)
Cockpits are really nice. Why don't rf2 have any street cars
- I think in rf2 you feel earlier when the car starts to slide.
- Nice loading times ( but is it just because of lack of features and no other cars on track atm?)
- UI is nice as said many times before (I mean mainly on track plugins, main menu is good enough in rf2 imo)
- Didn't figure out how to use h-shifter without using clutch.

Good start there, now I wait for more features and multiplayer.

It's also good if all the updates are done via Steam (don't usually like Steam but this is handy)

I hope that AC will push ISI to work even harder For example getting that BTCC car released already (I know it's not entirely up to them but still)

 

[Timpie Claessens]

TIG, in the road cars always press ctrl + a to manually disable the ABS. They all have some secret annoying ABS that enables no matter if it's on pro. You can immedeatly test it by standing on the stoppers when youre leaving pitlane.
Same with ctrl + t, when you try to spin the wheels up in 1st gear (in pretty much any car) and it immedeatly bogs down, the TC has most likely activated itself.

 

[TIG_green]

TIG, in the road cars always press ctrl + a to manually disable the ABS. They all have some secret annoying ABS that enables no matter if it's on pro. You can immedeatly test it by standing on the stoppers when youre leaving pitlane.
Same with ctrl + t, when you try to spin the wheels up in 1st gear (in pretty much any car) and it immedeatly bogs down, the TC has most likely activated itself.

thanks for tips.

 

[Noel Hibbard]

TIG, in the road cars always press ctrl + a to manually disable the ABS. They all have some secret annoying ABS that enables no matter if it's on pro. You can immedeatly test it by standing on the stoppers when youre leaving pitlane.
Same with ctrl + t, when you try to spin the wheels up in 1st gear (in pretty much any car) and it immedeatly bogs down, the TC has most likely activated itself.

So you're saying that even in pro mode it has TC and ABS enabled unless you hit Ctrl+A/T? This reminds me of so many of the current road cars in real life where you turn off TC but when you get the car really sideways to stupid crap kicks in anyways. Real cars these days are full of aids, lagy drive by wire, inability to hit the gas and brake at the same time, real LSDs are being replaced by electronics that apply the brake to the spinning wheel to send the power to the other wheel and now most of them don't have MT options, just gay double clutch auto boxes... now this dumbing down trend is working it's way into sims. Hahahaha

 

[Esteve Rueda]

Talking about Pacejka... someone wanted to know if AC uses It, can this clarify something?:

I'm not an expert and I can't totally understand that curve with no more info, but seems like Pacejka Force/slip angle curve. That graph shows tyre #3, and that tyre is rear right one.

 

[smithaz]

+1 Esteve, you talk a lot of sense on the subject of AC. I think you are right in that people who cannot finish a lap in rF2 think AC is the best ever just because it isn't as difficult, is easy to use and looks nice, perhaps they think it is a better game because it 'looks' like a better game.
rF2 excels at the thing which matters most, driving on track in a racing car, everything else can and is waiting. At this moment in time it looks like AC is more talk and marketing over substance.

 

[Gonzas]

It's not dynamic, test It, just a predefined texture that appears in the same place and doesn't matter where you are drivng... and... do you spin at 60km/h with Corvette? just learn to drive because I can turn it at 20km/h, and also at 240km/h with no problems in any track and as me, every driver who drive with me in the same races. I can't spin AC F Abarth even doing zigzag at 190km/h with 3 front wing, 4 rear wing, way more stiff suspension than default, and softer front suspension to produce oversteer, and also changed 10% power diff lock to 50%, I only can spin It working hard to do It, I saw real cars spin with way less "stress".

And not, with some cars It's not weird to spin at 80km/h if you are driving like no handed and not using the correct technique.

Thanks god of driving, Sorry me if im not in your supreme level.


I hope we will meet someday online and check our.skills, thats if im able to join , is not easy, i will try to recieve some classes about all the things i should do before join.

Maybe on rfactor 1? XD
Regards.

 

[Noel Hibbard]

Thanks god of driving, Sorry me if im not in your supreme level.


I hope we will meet someday online and check our.skills, thats if im able to join , is not easy, i will try to recieve some classes about all the things i should do before join.

Maybe on rfactor 1? XD
Regards.

Yeah there is a lot to know..... Click Join.

 

[Niksounds]

So you're saying that even in pro mode it has TC and ABS enabled unless you hit Ctrl+A/T? This reminds me of so many of the current road cars in real life where you turn off TC but when you get the car really sideways to stupid crap kicks in anyways. Real cars these days are full of aids, lagy drive by wire, inability to hit the gas and brake at the same time, real LSDs are being replaced by electronics that apply the brake to the spinning wheel to send the power to the other wheel and now most of them don't have MT options, just gay double clutch auto boxes... now this dumbing down trend is working it's way into sims. Hahahaha

Yes Noel, and the concept is simple.
In EXPERT mode you have the car AS IS in real life.

Has the car ABS? ok.. ABS active.
Has the street car for example TC active? OK.. TC active.

Do you want deactivate the aids on BMW? no button as in real life.. but CTRL+A for ABS off e CTRL+T for TC off.

Simple.


.. or not?
Nik

 

[Noel Hibbard]

Yes Noel, and the concept is simple.
In EXPERT mode you have the car AS IS in real life.

Has the car ABS? ok.. ABS active.
Has the street car for example TC active? OK.. TC active.

Do you want deactivate the aids on BMW? no button as in real life.. but CTRL+A for ABS off e CTRL+T for TC off.

Simple.


.. or not?
Nik

I see your point but the F458 for example (in real life) has driving modes and all aids turn off in the correct mode. When you set the driving mode to Pro in the menu and then look at what the details of pro mode and it says everything is off then you would expect everything to be off. No big deal now that I know. It just departs from the way every sim has worked to date.

One question, not at the house to try myself. When you hit Ctrl+A/T does this stick between sessions or is it going to drive me crazy and turn back on every time the way my real car does? In real life the lawyers dictate that the aids have to default to on. But this is a sim, lets not drive people crazy.

 

[peterchen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0o1yWMJSyU
from another user/forum

MAGIC!

Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!


P.s.: AC hype will vanish away much faster as it begun...

 

[Domi]

It's not dynamic, test It, just a predefined texture that appears in the same place and doesn't matter where you are drivng... and... do you spin at 60km/h with Corvette? just learn to drive because I can turn it at 20km/h, and also at 240km/h with no problems in any track and as me, every driver who drive with me in the same races. I can't spin AC F Abarth even doing zigzag at 190km/h with 3 front wing, 4 rear wing, way more stiff suspension than default, and softer front suspension to produce oversteer, and also changed 10% power diff lock to 50%, I only can spin It working hard to do It, I saw real cars spin with way less "stress".

That's quite simplistic, at 190kmh the main element to take in account is the aero balance, and as a start point 3 FW and 4 RW is quite understeerish. Ride heights are also very important.

 

[Timpie Claessens]

I see your point but the F458 for example (in real life) has driving modes and all aids turn off in the correct mode. When you set the driving mode to Pro in the menu and then look at what the details of pro mode and it says everything is off then you would expect everything to be off. No big deal now that I know. It just departs from the way every sim has worked to date.

One question, not at the house to try myself. When you hit Ctrl+A/T does this stick between sessions or is it going to drive me crazy and turn back on every time the way my real car does? In real life the lawyers dictate that the aids have to default to on. But this is a sim, lets not drive people crazy.

As far as I can tell, it resets everytime you get back at the main screen where you choose the cars etc. It does stay if as long as you stay in the session.
If you have that little white gear-app enabled there is a red line inside the RPM line. When that flickers when you want to drive off with a clutch dump TC is on
ABS you feel quite easily in the braking zones in your steeringwheel.


And @ Domi, you're right. That's another thing Aris mentioned. If you drop the ride height of the Formula Abart 20mm you'll see it feels different because you'll feel the diffusor being alot more effective.
Droping tirepressures might give you more grip but you'll probably be a bit slower
...

Aris wrote:
Try playing with excessive camber on race slicks and on the vintage L49...
try also playing with min max pressure.... what you feel is not always what you get in terms of laptimes... Example, very low tyre pressure, seems like tons of grip... laptimes slow. Very high pressure, seems like sliding too much but better acceleration and top speed. You can feel all this in the FFB too. You need the right compromise for the best laptimes. not too much, not too little.

Try getting the default tatuus for a couple of laps, then lower the height at 20mm front, 30-35mm rear and retry. You'll feel it in the FFB that the diffuser works better now...

and much more

 

[baronesbc]

Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!

with semi-slick, with right tires it feels like this:

 

[Niksounds]

Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!


P.s.: AC hype will vanish away much faster as it begun...

UH?!

 

[Niksounds]

with semi-slick, with right tires it feels like this:

Fantastic video!

 

[williang83]

Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!


P.s.: AC hype will vanish away much faster as it begun...

Peterchen,

have you ever went with a racing sport car in a track? Seriously. First of all, you are totally immature. Cheer because a game does not meet expectation (although still in beta, just like when rfactor 2 sucked a lot in the beginning) very childish. It is in your interest hope that they can improve so you can have more choice in the market and more competition which would force ISI to improve their product.

That said, rf taught something very bad, which is that a car to be realistic must be hard to drive. That's not real life!!!! Excluding some open wheeler which require the precise technique and are less forgiving. You can do a lot of stuff specially with a car like the one in the video, before even reach a situation where you lose control. In fact, in sportive driving lessons they usually does not take months and months to teach you anything but rather a weekend and worst scenarios a week. I saw inexperience drivers learning how to slide in less than 4 laps, now according to you (most of you) to be realistic you must need a least a whole week of practice or else it does not resemble reality.

 

[Lucio Distilleri]

.

 

[Lucio Distilleri]

Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!


P.s.: AC hype will vanish away much faster as it begun...

lol the endurance car are designed to run fof 24h, in rf2 each round may be the last
in rf2 this cars are a soap, this is simulation? NO
rf2 is only a hardcore game, for me simulation is another

 

[williang83]

lol the endurance car are designed to run fof 24h, in rf2 each round may be the last
in rf2 this cars are a soap, this is simulation? NO
rf2 is only a hardcore game, for me simulation is another

what makes me laugh is that even Hollywood actors took seat in 24h races in the past, some with good result. According to these hardcore games, that's not real because they should not have the skill necessary. Everything was too easy.

 

[Matt Sentell]

Spent a bunch of time with it, various cars, changing setups, etc. There's a lot to like but at the end of the day you can't "dance" with the car, which is what Esteve is really on about. What's strange is that the cars drift so well but you can't dance with them. For those who don't know, the term refers to the balancing act of trying to keep the front and rear slip angles relatively the same at all times. That's what you see Nicolas Costa doing in those F Abarth videos. It's what makes driving a car at the limit so much fun, but a great many track day drivers have never actually experienced it even though they think they know what race driving is about. You have to be near the limit to dance. There's a reason that Nic Costa's laps look like that while almost every other F Abarth onboard I've watched looks more like AC: he's a championship winning driver and most of the others are students.

It's the same with the Skip Barber videos. You can find plenty of students driving the car well under the limit and say OMG, why are the sim cars so oversteery. Then watch someone running near a lap record, or one of the instructors. It looks like a different car but it isn't.

I will not suggest, however, that Kunos has intentionally dumbed AC down. They've pushed back strenuously against that assertion and say their data supports what's in the sim, and I believe them. I'm sure the ISI guys would say the same, just as iRacing does. Everyone has data and everyone thinks what they're doing is more or less correct. The charges that devs are intentionally dumbing down their sims are IMO offensive if they've said otherwise, and Kunos has. So I give them credit for trying, and I believe that they believe it's right, but my real life experience of both racing and road cars at the limit tells me it isn't.

I wish it were, because there's a lot of other stuff to like. A lot. And I'll race any sim that lets me dance and rewards me for doing it well. I don't care who's name is on it.

 

[Spinelli]

Spent a bunch of time with it, various cars, changing setups, etc. There's a lot to like but at the end of the day you can't "dance" with the car, which is what Esteve is really on about. What's strange is that the cars drift so well but you can't dance with them. For those who don't know, the term refers to the balancing act of trying to keep the front and rear slip angles relatively the same at all times. That's what you see Nicolas Costa doing in those F Abarth videos. It's what makes driving a car at the limit so much fun, but a great many track day drivers have never actually experienced it even though they think they know what race driving is about. You have to be near the limit to dance. There's a reason that Nic Costa's laps look like that while almost every other F Abarth onboard I've watched looks more like AC: he's a championship winning driver and most of the others are students.

It's the same with the Skip Barber videos. You can find plenty of students driving the car well under the limit and say OMG, why are the sim cars so oversteery. Then watch someone running near a lap record, or one of the instructors. It looks like a different car but it isn't.

I will not suggest, however, that Kunos has intentionally dumbed AC down. They've pushed back strenuously against that assertion and say their data supports what's in the sim, and I believe them. I'm sure the ISI guys would say the same, just as iRacing does. Everyone has data and everyone thinks what they're doing is more or less correct. The charges that devs are intentionally dumbing down their sims are IMO offensive if they've said otherwise, and Kunos has. So I give them credit for trying, and I believe that they believe it's right, but my real life experience of both racing and road cars at the limit tells me it isn't.

I wish it were, because there's a lot of other stuff to like. A lot. And I'll race any sim that lets me dance and rewards me for doing it well. I don't care who's name is on it.

Honestly....One of the best posts ive read since being on this forum for 2 or 3 years now. Especially the first 2 paragraphs...

It's sad because most people don't understand this, so they think things on/near the limit are much more easy/straightforward/simple than they really are in real life. Sadly, they are the majority, and unfortunately their incorrect/in-accurate opinion and influence is much more powerful and "loud" than the fewer people who truly understand what you are on about in your first 2 paragraphs.

 

[Adrianstealth]

AC seems to be having a fantastic debut, some users are saying it feels fantastic some say awful

I think most opinions we're reading can only be first impressions, none of us have any idea how long key features will take to be added etc,

I've clocked 20hrs since Fridays release ( what 20hrs !!!! .... Steam stats hey ! ), I'm impressed but to a certain degree still sitting on the fence, I think one has to really spend some time with a certain sim car to get to be able to push it to its limits & be able to make a balanced judgement .

I hope AC does good, it should help expand & promote interest in sim racing which is good for rf2 & iracing & ultimately us too !

 

[Minibull]

Spent a bunch of time with it, various cars, changing setups, etc. There's a lot to like but at the end of the day you can't "dance" with the car, which is what Esteve is really on about. What's strange is that the cars drift so well but you can't dance with them. For those who don't know, the term refers to the balancing act of trying to keep the front and rear slip angles relatively the same at all times. That's what you see Nicolas Costa doing in those F Abarth videos. It's what makes driving a car at the limit so much fun, but a great many track day drivers have never actually experienced it even though they think they know what race driving is about. You have to be near the limit to dance. There's a reason that Nic Costa's laps look like that while almost every other F Abarth onboard I've watched looks more like AC: he's a championship winning driver and most of the others are students.

It's the same with the Skip Barber videos. You can find plenty of students driving the car well under the limit and say OMG, why are the sim cars so oversteery. Then watch someone running near a lap record, or one of the instructors. It looks like a different car but it isn't.

I will not suggest, however, that Kunos has intentionally dumbed AC down. They've pushed back strenuously against that assertion and say their data supports what's in the sim, and I believe them. I'm sure the ISI guys would say the same, just as iRacing does. Everyone has data and everyone thinks what they're doing is more or less correct. The charges that devs are intentionally dumbing down their sims are IMO offensive if they've said otherwise, and Kunos has. So I give them credit for trying, and I believe that they believe it's right, but my real life experience of both racing and road cars at the limit tells me it isn't.

I wish it were, because there's a lot of other stuff to like. A lot. And I'll race any sim that lets me dance and rewards me for doing it well. I don't care who's name is on it.

You have pretty much described perfectly what I have trouble putting into words XD

That's what is missing for me so far. That ability to "dance" with the car.
I gave myself 10 laps with the Abarth at Vallelunga, and I got a 1:34.9 done on a scrappy lap, still learning the track. The key part that has been pointed out by Esteve is what I found too. Turn the wheel, mash the throttle, turn it more. Which usually turns out either you run off track, or you get the amount of understeer right and hit the rumble strips and get a good exit. And when I was trying to push harder, it just came to more lock and trying to get not too much understeer. There was no chance to try and slightly square a slow corner off and get on the throttle sooner, or be able to steer through the exit with the throttle like is shown in the real vid.

Also I know some people will not find the difference with "dancing" and forced drifting IMO. That BMW above does look real nice drifting, but it is not the same as stepping over the limits while cornering hard, which is where it is lacking. Break traction with the throttle at a slower speed than the car could really go around the corner, and control the slide. Not the same as coming in a 10 kph too fast for you/the tyres to handle, try to slow down, lift the weight too much off the rear for the speed you are going, and then the rear is mostly lost and you are off track.
The Lotus shows that so well. It was bloody impossible to carry a slight slide through the last corner at Monza onto the straight. In GPL I can do it, in rF2 I can do it, just a slight slide under power, right when you've got everything nailed. The rear end would step out with the Lotus, but as soon as it had done that, it would sorta slow and regrip again, like it wasn't able to get any drive while slipping. It wouldnt let me "dance" in that zone. And yes, aids were all off before anyone asks.

Still driving it on and off though, and still the M3 E30 is my fave hahahahaha XD

 

[Matt Sentell]

Thanks Spinelli.

BTW, for anyone annoyed by the pogo bouncing on the race cars, I found that at least with the F Abarth if you reduce the wheel rates to their minimums both front and rear that it significantly reduces it. Nothing else I tried had any real effect but that did. I do find it quite odd that we're changing wheel rates directly in setup. They really should be derived from the other settings in concert with the car's designs. Wheel rate is a consequence of everything else, in other words, and not something you directly change. It's strange.

Having said what I did about them believing in their data, I would just point to this bouncing as an example of something that's undeniably wrong in spite of their data, and it should give anyone pause who wants to "just trust them." I don't think you have to be going especially fast to see it, so anyone with AC can just go in and try to run over the curbs the way Costa does here at Imola:

In particular look at how he takes the final chicane at the top of the hill, around the 1:25 mark. He's all the way up to the inner edge of the curbing and it barely upsets the car at all. In AC if you even go across the outer edge of those curbs with the default wheel rates you'll be bouncing like mad. And even with the minimum wheel rates it gets quite a bit more upset than in Costa's video.

Of course someone will scream, "but it's a Beta!" And yes, it is, but they have the data and telemetry, right?

Things aren't so simple.

 

[Noel Hibbard]

Matt is totally correct about people doing track days and thinking they are on the limit but very far from it. It trips me out at track days with a bone stock car with a good set of street tires running all over highly modified sports cars just to watch them walk away on the next straight. With the minimal wave by zones they have at most track days you get stuck behind these guys for the whole session. You sometimes wonder why these guys even bothered coming to the track.

 

[Matt Sentell]

@Minibull: Yep, I hear ya. I WANT to like it very badly, because of all the goodness I see in other areas. But where the rubber always meets the road for me, so to speak, is in how do you get the lap time? Is it by dancing, by keeping the car balanced more consistently and more often than the next guy? Or is it by doing something weird, that you never see in real cars, and that you just know shouldn't be fast, like this:

I finally got to about a 29.2 myself while chasing that time (the video is a 28.760), trying to see if driving the car properly without all that mid-corner understeer would be quicker. But really even my 29.2 was after I gave in and employed some of the techniques used in the video.

And then there's the at-the-moment WR video of the same combo:

It isn't quite so bad in terms of understeer, but look at what goes on around the 1:20 mark. That's in a lap that's almost 2 full seconds quicker than my PB.

I have never seen, either in replay or video or any other context, someone going quicker than me in rF2 or GSC where something like that occurs, or where the car is being driven in such an obviously unbalanced state. Not even once.

 

[Timpie Claessens]

That last corner and what is now Ascari is like watching one of those old GPL replays where they turn in like 50m before they get to the actual corner, and then just understeer to the correct line

But I agree that the Lotus seems the oddest car of all, it's also VERY difficult to maintain a proper slide (as you can see how aleksi exits parabolica) in that while that should be one of the easiest cars to do that with seeing how theyre supposed to run of old bias ply tires

 

[Matt Sentell]

Matt is totally correct about people doing track days and thinking they are on the limit but very far from it. It trips me out at track days with a bone stock car with a good set of street tires running all over highly modified sports cars just to watch them walk away on the next straight. With the minimal wave by zones they have at most track days you get stuck behind these guys for the whole session. You sometimes wonder why these guys even bothered coming to the track.

The thing is they don't have the training or the seat time, so they don't understand. They think they're going quickly and they're probably having fun. They know they aren't going as quickly as you but what they don't understand is what it's LIKE to go as quickly as you.

I'm not trying to be condescending. They're having fun and that's fine. If they could be you for a lap then they probably wouldn't have as much fun after. I think I already linked it into some other thread a month ago so I won't paste it in-line here, but this is the same thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi2YRj6gqBA

That was the reason that GT/Nissan Academy drivers got banned from the British GT Championship. If you actually sit and watch that video he's really working the car a lot of the time. Odds are if you could see the onboards of the guys he's smoking, it looks a lot more, what's the word, "stable." Not because of car setup, but just because they simply aren't on it.

 

[Spinelli]

And then there's the at-the-moment WR video of the same combo:

..... but look at what goes on around the 1:20 mark. That's in a lap that's almost 2 full seconds quicker than my PB.

I have never seen, either in replay or video or any other context, someone going quicker than me in rF2 or GSC where something like that occurs, or where the car is being driven in such an obviously unbalanced state. Not even once.

What in the world is going on at 1:20? That looks horrible.

I think AC nailed it because the physics offer that feeling of controllable and grip, however, anyone who really analyses what is happening with the cars' physics/handling dynamics, rather than just going by the good feeling of grip and controllability, will realise there are many weird/arcady/simcady flaws in AC.

No sim is perfect, I can handle certain things that are overly tricky due to not having a God-given perfect physics engine and also due to our equipment and severe lack of feel relative to real life, I can live with all that and try to get used to it and live with it, what I can't live with however is overly forgiving/simplistic/simcadiness, that I cannot live with.

I want AC to be so good this is why I am kind of pissed off, it puts into context just how good RFactor 2 is from a pure physics dynamics point of view. Sadly LOTS of people dont seem to see how good RF2 is and think it is like driving on ice and AC is the holy grail perfect sim of all time. Someone needs to make some youtube videos explaining what esteve and matt have been describing.

 

[Matt Sentell]

That last corner and what is now Ascari is like watching one of those old GPL replays where they turn in like 50m before they get to the actual corner, and then just understeer to the correct line

But I agree that the Lotus seems the oddest car of all, it's also VERY difficult to maintain a proper slide (as you can see how aleksi exits parabolica) in that while that should be one of the easiest cars to do that with seeing how theyre supposed to run of old bias ply tires

Is that Elomaa? I didn't think that was his Youtube alias. He's probably reading this thread, and if so he'd probably be the first to admit it's messed up, because he can dance.

 

[Timpie Claessens]

Is that Elomaa? I didn't think that was his Youtube alias. He's probably reading this thread, and if so he'd probably be the first to admit it's messed up, because he can dance.

I think it is alltho I also vaguely remember another YT name, but I'm 99% sure cus of the Corvette C5 video on the c hannel.

 

[Minibull]

Yep, exactly. And in contrast, when I've seen laps from Morand, Huttu or someone like that, they are extremely fast but the car is smooth and balanced and in control. Which is what is usually said about real racing, especially in bike racing, the guys up front look like they are going slow, while the backmarkers look like they are flying and pushing so super hard, but are actually going much slower overall.
It's not always the case though in some areas, (Ayrton Senna, Mark Marquez) but for the most part it holds true.

I've just tried the same, Lotus with straight default setup, and I got to a 1:30.256. It certainly feels like you could easily go faster if you could somehow control the understeer and oversteer better with the throttle.

 

[DurgeDriven]

AC and pCARS got to do something about those huge hands.
Lotus 49 both AC and pCARS 'elmet it is still too bulbous as well.
They give you Historic track and car and modern big arsed gloves and big 'elmets. hehehe


On the tracks compare Historics Spa and Monza from the 3 titles, ( cambers, radius, elevations ) ... anyone else seeing huge variation because I am.
pCARS Spa looks more like GPL layout then not.
rF2 looks nothing like any of them but when you look at old utube it most resembles it I think.

They can't all be right.

 

[o0thx11380o]

lol the endurance car are designed to run fof 24h, in rf2 each round may be the last
in rf2 this cars are a soap, this is simulation? NO
rf2 is only a hardcore game, for me simulation is another

what makes me laugh is that even Hollywood actors took seat in 24h races in the past, some with good result. According to these hardcore games, that's not real because they should not have the skill necessary. Everything was too easy.

I agree with you guys, being hard does not make it realistic.

 

[Esteve Rueda]

I'm happy to know I'm not the only one tested AC with these impressions, in some moments I was worried and thought I was crazy to not to feel as many others (in other forums) are feeling in AC.

I think we can be happy about ISI is doing, and... yes, AC will be a great "sim" i will play It for sure if they achieve a nice online and great game modes, but for now... I thought they had more features developed, but seems like they have almost nothing now, just wait and see how evolve!