Assetto Corsa Respectful Comparison

30 minutes!? ah... ok
I have AC from 3 days and i'm still under testing.
It's better to try things in detail ... i think...
Actually imho AC shows me any time more the potential. It can't be PERFECT now, but when i read that "it's similar to RRE o Pcars"... the balls abandon me.. =)

MAH!?
 
I think to say It's like RRE or PCARS It's exaggerated too :p or I hope It... I didn't tested RRE or PCARS.

And about Pacejka... I don't know if they are using It or not, but close to 0km/h speeds It behaves in the same way as the rest of Pacejka based simulators.
 
Its a bit early to judge AC , it seems better than RF2 was at the same stage of release , its way to grippy I was taking corners in the open wheelers at top speed and not even touching the brake but Im sure that will all be tweaked as it moves along , if it makes the same level of improvement as RF2 has in the latest builds its going to be a good sim , AC looks very clinical while RF2 has that bit of retro grit to its look .both are very nice to look at , I like the AC interface , on a off topic note Id like Arma 3 to have an interface like AC has it would make A3 so much easier to get into .

As for driving feel in a race sim , the best out there right now is Game Stock Car 2013 it feels awesome and the AI is spot on , GSC in my humble opinion is the best driving Sim thats been made so far , I hope RF2 can surpass it as it sure has the potential too , looks like a great time for sims .
 
tsunamibr said:
You guys are getting way off the reality, and deep into any biased rumour you hear around. I just had to do a simple search to find this interview, and the right answer to this question. No, Kunos isn't using anything Pacejka related, even since the NetKar Pro era.
Stop making false assumptions. Besides, their simulation is being used by several racing houses around the world, and AFAIK is one of the main reasons the game did get delayed. It isn't by no means arcade-ish, as some may allege here, quite the opposite. I'm not in any side in this discussion, I'm just pointing out that there are some irrefutable facts that people seems to disconsider in this thread.

http://www.radicalsonline.com/conte...peaks-about-his-life-simracing-and-netKar-PRO
Click to expand...

Stefano admitted in another interview that AC is based on a "base slip curve" tire model, which is quite similar to rFactor (and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing). In fact you can see the slip curves in one of the dev apps.

The model we see in netKar Pro V1.3, Ferrari Virtual Academy (FVA), and AC are all based on the idea of generating a “base” slip curve that is then adapted to the behaviour of the tyre.

http://ravsim.com/2012/08/27/stefano-casillo-on-netkar-pro-part-2/
 
GTClub_wajdi said:
I love rf2, but AC is a great sim too!
Click to expand...

Nice video GT. Game looks real nice and clean. As mentioned earlier maybe too clean. I hate to be that guy, I'm in the camp that says the more Sims the better, but the sounds r all type of wrong. The car has a flat plane crank so it should sound almost like a Ferrari, at least the ALMS ones did. Not to mention that everytime u downshift I can't help but cringe and look in ur mirrors for the pieces of engine and gearbox that should b falling out :)

Also wanted to thank all you guys for ur opinions. I wasn't a big fan of the Tech demo so wasn't going to get it on release. I think I'll let it simmer for a while and see what it turns into.
 
Slamfunk3 said:
Not to mention that everytime u downshift I can't help but cringe and look in ur mirrors for the pieces of engine and gearbox that should b falling out :)
Click to expand...

I constantly take the michael out of one of my mates who does that. He comes from GT5 and I call it his gearbox brake :). I keep threatening to turn on the damage to show him how long he will last.
 
kaptainkremmen said:
I constantly take the michael out of one of my mates who does that. He comes from GT5 and I call it his gearbox brake :). I keep threatening to turn on the damage to show him how long he will last.
Click to expand...

Haha. I really wasn't trying to knock his driving style. Its kind of a like a F1 downshift and i know a lot of people do it. The sound sample that's used there though just seems to make it sooo much worse.
 
Esteve Rueda said:
That car is driving on ice if you use regional version, litterally, you have to make use of grat driving techniques to push that cars, just search few vdeos about rookies spinning around at 80km/h like they were in oil. Most of time you will see proffesional guys driving smooth and fast, and also simdrivers driving smooth and fast too, with some corrections needed sometimes. To see cars spinning in real life in YT videos is not as usual as see good drivers because videos you see is as I said from proffesionals, but with Skip is a good example of real life of what happen when you do not use the correct way to drive the car:

This guy is not pushing, he is going really slow, but the incorrect throttle input makes him to spin.

It's not about hard or easy, It's about the need to use the correct driving techniques. GTR in rF2 can be hard at begining, but learning how the car behaves and learning how to drive It fast... It's a beast with tond of grip and an awesome turn speed. In AC you don't need to take care about little details, yes, you also need to know how to drive fast, but no more, you can be as aggressive as you want and you will hardly spin, and if you spin will be because you did something weird... my video shows how I push from 0% to 100% throttle with any car reaction, the POV doesn't matter, see at pedals telemetry, full throttle over some kerbs in mid turn phase and full throttle in a chicane where in real life It's impossible to do easily in that way.

And Kunos saying that laptimes are totally matched and also you need to master and learn the car to match real ones... makes me laugh, no more than 15 laps needed to almost reach Lacosta's time in Vallelunga with any sense of being at the grip limit, I'm only limited by understeer. I'm sure with 30 mins of training I could do 1 secong faster than Lacosta with default setup, I don't know how fast with a nice one...

Was said before... but It seems like Kunos is wanting to match the "feeling of driving the car" with no care about real reactions, you can drive fast with less kick ass reactions than in realiyty to get a nice driving time. It's weird how easy a "decent" simdriver can match realtimes with no practice, I'm far from be an alien, so much people are faster than me, and I needed only 15-20 laps to match real time in Vallelunga with F Abarth, and 15-20 laps to match real times it Imola with GT2.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Esteve Rueda said:
I tested a lot GT2 and F Abarth, only few laps at Monza and Imola with Lotus 49... but I will test deeper that car because can be a nice one to compare.

But my first impression was not good... default setup at Monza is crap for me. The car understeers heavily, and to break is sooo easy, despite having bad brakes and stone tyres you can breake It easily, and at high speeds you will never suffer oversteer. In Imola works different, in Imola you can "play" with It, slide and that stuff, but in a strange way, the car lose and recovers grip really fast, too aggressive, as soon as you begin to slide you countersteer and rear wheels gain grip suddenly, It's hard to explain... as I said, I will test this car as comparison because is a good starting point.

Oh... BMW is a GT2 and is totally different from all rF2 GT2s... pure grip and no way to oversteer with default setups, and if you touch setup, you can get oversteer but always in that strange way you lose speed fast when slide and then the car recovers grip suddely again like nothing happened.

And I found even more weird things in my latest test runs... sometimes when turning, you can push full throttle and RPMS goes to max like you were sliding rear wheels... but the strange thing is you have not to countersteer, the rear wheels don't slide despite they are spinning faster than car speed. You still turning and pushing throttle like you were not spinning your wheels, crazy.

I'm more angry the more I use it. See at this bug, in NKPro happened too... new physics engine? and the same bugs than previous title? the car seems like not connected to track, like physics were scripted and not properly simulated, if properly simulated this could not happen in so simple situations:

Edit: I discovered that this bug can be produced by a kind of simulation engine and happens in other sims too (I didn't see it in rF2 yet :) ), and does not mean a bad simulation, but despite of that there is lots of strange behaviours like wheels spinning faster than ground speed in mid turn phase with no oversteer signs, that is something even more weird.
Click to expand...

I dont understand how Kunos could have so much of this simcadiness too it, I thought he was hardcore. I was so excited for AC too
 
Bought it yesterday. The download and install were flawless, as expected with Steam. The physics were somewhat improved over NetKar, but will need work to meet the Benchmark set by rF2. I am generally much more interested in the function of the Simulated car physics and available tracks and their integration into the game play. It is very early to judge the estimated 30% better frame rates that I observed in this early release of AC over that of rF2. As track details such as real road and changing weather are further improved in rF2 it will set a standard that will take time for Kunos and his team to equal. I really enjoyed the Lotus 67 and the manual transmission in AC. AC will need work to make the in game performance of the cars equal that of rF2. It is to be seen how AC incorporates the online function, and incorporates the community of mod makers. It took "NetKar" a long time to accept and incorporate community efforts. So that to is to be seen. Both Titles have a way to go in the area of the User Interface. I think that there will be healthy competition between AC and rF2, which will in the end, benefit both companies and the simulator racing community in general. Finally, remember that rF2 has been available to the community for over two years. I am glad to own both.
 
Esteve Rueda said:
If you are talking about Skip Barber, yes, regional version have street tyres. The difference against regional is that national can be pushed harder, less braking distance, more cornering speed, and more grippy feeling, youu can push earlier in corner exits. I think is easier to drive, but you need to use the correct driving techniques too to drive It, if you release throttle pedal from 100% to 0% during turning you will get a kick in the ass as in regional version.
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I worked at an F2000 school almost everyday for 8 months and was one of the lucky few who 1 on 1 on-track instructed some hot-shot up and coming karting guys. The real life cars act very similiar to the RF2 versions and the iracing versions, and the V4 iracing one was, in my opinion, even more accurate than the V5 iracing one; when taken to the limit around a lap in the hands of a capable driver the V4 seemed to act more true to it's real life counterpart than the V5, yet it seems more people are happy and accepting of the V5 just because it feels more stable and in-control to the player.

It seems sim players nowadays don't want sims anymore, they want 85% sim with compromises/"fudging"/dumbing-down of the last 15% in order to make up for our lack of feeling and connection that you get in real life, and in order to make the driving and lap-times slightly more accesseable to a wider audience, yet still feeling hardcore to most people.

I thought 2012 and on would be the bright ages of simracing with RRRE, RF2, AC, IRacing and so on. However, with the widespread of "sims", I feel the sim developers are being pressured by competition, sales, customers etc. to go for this 85% sim/15% simcade philosophy; if that's the case, then I ask.........

...Are we entering a dark age regarding 100% as hardcore as possible physics racing sims? Is this a new age of "true, industrial style" sims being phased out and replaced by 85% hardcore/15% compromised to "feel good and in control" style sims? I pray for the sake of my number 2 life passion (only number 2 to real life racing) that it is not.
 
SripleTix said:
Guys, we have "THE" formula Abarth, 20 meters under our offices several times every year. We use AC one to prepare newbies and to train veteran drivers. We had access to any kind of data that exist, and the telemetry (at vallelunga, same track) says that our DOES it on the same way: second gear, full throttle, no dangers, full grip...
Laptimes are difficult to compare. Before driving the real one, Instructors brainwash drivers on how much does cost to even scratch one, how much to bend a suspension arm ecc ecc
But you don't know how many times we could literally overlap telemetries...
You have to live with it.

:)
Click to expand...
The car reactions and movements and just overall dynamics of it seem completely different on the AC and real life onboard lap comparison post that Esteve Rueda posted in this thread. The real life one has tons of grip due to the power-to-grip ratio, but when pushing the rear can still move around and corrections are needed and improper technique or just pushing too hard still makes the car movement very dynamic, where as the AC version seems very un-dynamic as if there is no fidelity to it's physics. I believe Esteve explained it extremely well in that post.
 
First off I just want to mention I won't be making a comparison between the two. I just wanna showcase INGAME screenshots I took of a really good lap at monza in the bmw m3 gt2. This photo was all with the in game app for photo mode. I merely adjusted the time of day to get the sun to the exact point I wanted.

Here they are (all the same moment, just different angles):

da84fb4242346c0a7e2ebfa39e73d860.png

8e30a2e048d70b0e29706dfe62b4f9a4.png

37b6482cefe074ff797af82f13dcd57e.png
 
Remember how many people argued against comparing rF2 videos to onboard cam videos because it's totally misleading and confusing, lol.
 
Not more than a month ago, "rF2 needs more grip", "Why cant you look like AC", "Tire model is so bad", "Its like driving on ice, AC techdemo is the beesknees".... and now this crying about the opposite. I'm sure that before either game is "complete", this whining fest changes targets about 400 times. :rolleyes:

Could we get something like this for sim racers?
http://www.turnzero.com/technical_resources.php?resource=racing_excuse_generator

Im having fun with both games, and both are full of issues, but hey.. nothings perfect. :eek:
 
tsunamibr said:
You guys are getting way off the reality, and deep into any biased rumour you hear around. I just had to do a simple search to find this interview, and the right answer to this question. No, Kunos isn't using anything Pacejka related, even since the NetKar Pro era.
Stop making false assumptions. Besides, their simulation is being used by several racing houses around the world, and AFAIK is one of the main reasons the game did get delayed. It isn't by no means arcade-ish, as some may allege here, quite the opposite. I'm not in any side in this discussion, I'm just pointing out that there are some irrefutable facts that people seems to disconsider in this thread.

http://www.radicalsonline.com/conte...peaks-about-his-life-simracing-and-netKar-PRO
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are talking.

netKar PRo uses a Pacejka model according to public sources, eg

http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators

and according to what Kunos himself posted in a italian forum years ago.

I asked a simple question about AC and i miss to understand why my question sounds to you as a "false assumption" (you quoted me).
 
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After a bit more testing I've found with 16x AF I have 130fps and with no AF I have 320fps. So if anyone's looking for more FPS try lowering your AF :D
 
Spinelli said:
Is this a new age of "true, industrial style" sims being phased out and replaced by 85% hardcore/15% compromised to "feel good and in control" style sims? I pray for the sake of my number 2 life passion (only number 2 to real life racing) that it is not.
Click to expand...

In fact it isn't: we're finally approching the age of "I control the car and I know what I did wrong when I spin" after ages of "I've been driver by the car and I spin withouth knowing why". And that's a huge step forward.
 
So after driving in AC for two days straight I decided to give my other sims a run to see how I felt about them now. After AC I played RaceRoom, rF2, and GameStockCar. After driving with the very high fidelity physics in AC all these other sims now feel strange to me. The cars feel so light now. GSC still feels fantastic. RR just feels so bad now, It wasn't that great to begin with but the difference between it and AC is astonishing. As for rF2 I still absolutely love it as it's got alot more features, but if AC ever gets those features, as much as I hate to say it... AC's driving feels so much more immersive and realistic. Of course it's still rough around the edges, but I think it's going to be the new king... in a few years lol.
 
o0thx11380o said:
So after driving in AC for two days straight I decided to give my other sims a run to see how I felt about them now. After AC I played RaceRoom, rF2, and GameStockCar. After driving with the very high fidelity physics in AC all these other sims now feel strange to me. The cars feel so light now. GSC still feels fantastic. RR just feels so bad now, It wasn't that great to begin with but the difference between it and AC is astonishing. As for rF2 I still absolutely love it as it's got alot more features, but if AC ever gets those features, as much as I hate to say it... AC's driving feels so much more immersive and realistic. Of course it's still rough around the edges, but I think it's going to be the new king... in a few years lol.
Click to expand...

same impression here.
After one hour of AC , using another sim has a strange result.. !
 
I am really struggling to find any feeling of the road, the curbs, what the tires are doing, if the brakes lockup i just get a canned rattle on my wheel. I really want to get my FFB set up correctly. All i seem to feel at the moment is a very strong center spring and not much else. If anyone is using Fanatec GT3RS wheel can you post your settings if you have had good results.
It is odd in the wheel set up screen I can actually see something like a 10% dead zone on the position bar when i turn the wheel through its rotation, as the wheel passes through the center position the bar halts or lags until it comes out the other side, I don't like the FFB right now but its hopefully my settings and can be rectified.
 
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Spinelli said:
...Are we entering a dark age regarding 100% as hardcore as possible physics racing sims? Is this a new age of "true, industrial style" sims being phased out and replaced by 85% hardcore/15% compromised to "feel good and in control" style sims? I pray for the sake of my number 2 life passion (only number 2 to real life racing) that it is not.
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Well as you can certainly see now it works. What do you think why there are always a handful of people in the community complaining about while it looks like moaning and groaning because the common run of mankind don't care. This is offered to simplify where it only is possible whom the objective fact is the mass.

The only thing that is necessary to the conviction is to produce a familiar feeling regardless of whether it the image to 100% or not represents, provided the result is credible, create the necessary appearance and the package is almost complete.

People play to have fun not about to torture themselfes. If something is to scientifically, industrially and too time-intensive i'm not sure whether the whole thing as a game and leisure activities can be viewed or still would reach masses of people. I guess it is not good to sell.

ATM i'm still shocked by the masses response.
 
Uff said:
In fact it isn't: we're finally approching the age of "I control the car and I know what I did wrong when I spin" after ages of "I've been driver by the car and I spin withouth knowing why". And that's a huge step forward.
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Mhhh!!! You have been "driven" by a nervous rf2 car ....maybe cause you need a good setup and to do a lot of training but..if you give up... you have always the option to use the "new era " easy drive ...easy ffb....easy physics..=ac.



Inviato dal mio GT-I9500 con Tapatalk 2
 
I did some comparing yesterday between the two titles and i have to agree with most of you guys. RF2 still has better overall feeling of the road and grip. But the good thing is that Kunos knows their FFB is not as good as it should be and they are working on it. Interesting to see how it develops.
 
Personally I wouldn't mind if there is one HC sim and one simlike (more easily accessible game, concentrating more on graphics and on "fun factor") in the market.

Then I would have more reasons to divide my time between these two when both has something unique to offer. If the core in both end up being pretty much the same I would pick only one (not going to play both just because of different content).
 
PRC Steve said:
I am really struggling to find any feeling of the road, the curbs, what the tires are doing, if the brakes lockup i just get a canned rattle on my wheel. I really want to get my FFB set up correctly. All i seem to feel at the moment is a very strong center spring and not much else. If anyone is using Fanatec GT3RS wheel can you post your settings if you have had good results.
It is odd in the wheel set up screen I can actually see something like a 10% dead zone on the position bar when i turn the wheel through its rotation, as the wheel passes through the center position the bar halts or lags until it comes out the other side, I don't like the FFB right now but its hopefully my settings and can be rectified.
Click to expand...
i have the same wheel... and i cant complain about it in AC... make sure to calibrate your setup with the wizard integrated and for the ffb i use 50% on force in game...
On-Wheel Settings:
Sen- off
FF- 100
Shock- 0
Abs- 0
Lin- Off
Dea- Off
Dri- 1
Sp- Off
Damp- Off

I should have remembered everything
 
Well after playing ac since the friday release i got to say it nice to finally have a choice because ever since rf2 dropped i couldnt drive anything else, i would try but nothing else come close, till now. Its not quite as hardcore as rf2 but still believable in its own way. :)
 
baked bean said:
Well after playing ac since the friday release i got to say it nice to finally have a choice because ever since rf2 dropped i couldnt drive anything else, i would try but nothing else come close, till now. Its not quite as hardcore as rf2 but still believable in its own way. :)
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Haha lmao.. slow-motion gear shift animation :D

But seriously, this was the first video of AC that got me a bit tempted to try it out! Nice. I like how the engine sound becomes a bit dull in cockpit. I miss that with most rf2 mods, it sounds like the engine is in the cockpit.
 
raekwon said:
i have the same wheel... and i cant complain about it in AC... make sure to calibrate your setup with the wizard integrated and for the ffb i use 50% on force in game...
On-Wheel Settings:
Sen- off
FF- 100
Shock- 0
Abs- 0
Lin- Off
Dea- Off
Dri- 1
Sp- Off
Damp- Off

I should have remembered everything
Click to expand...

I gave your settings a try and things are much improved. Thanks
 
and one more thing, if you have a load cell brake make sure to use 1 as value in the gamma setting to make it linear.
 
We must also bear in mind that some people comparing these two sims run RF2 with FFB multi at 2.0 and smoothing at 30 making it feel like Sega Rally ;)
 
kaptainkremmen said:
We must also bear in mind that some people comparing these two sims run RF2 with FFB multi at 2.0 and smoothing at 30 making it feel like Sega Rally ;)
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Well I run rF2 between 0.9 and 1.0 and smoothing set at zero and the wheel feels alive with input from the car, If I can achieve anything similar with AC I will be very happy :)
 
I won't comment on the physics or graphics much because that has already been done enough in this thread. But what about UI?

The difference in UI between rF2 and AC is so astonishingly huge that this aspect alone could cause better sales for AC imo. In short, UI in AC is pure genius. Everything is exactly where you expect to be, and it looks so modern.
ISI *desperately* has to do something about theirs, whole rf2 UI looks like 15 years old. They haven't made it any better in those last 2 years and they will pay for it IMO.


Also, loading times in AC are lightning fast.
 
The UI in AC is the best I've ever seen in any title
The "apps" that swing in from the right ( that apparently can be added to with user mods, i.e: f1 tv overlay options etc ) is a great idea

It's slick & fast, seamless
 
For me my only problem is going to be the ffb, I have over the years developed RSI which can be extremely painful.
In pCars,rf1,rf2,GTR series I have no problems but in LFS and AC a few hours and my hands are in pain.

It's hard to say why this happens it just does, I suspect it's something to do with the heavy spring feel.
If you turn down the forces you reduce all forces around the centre but as you turn the wheel the forces increase probably still more than I can cope with.
 
Spinelli said:
I worked at an F2000 school almost everyday for 8 months and was one of the lucky few who 1 on 1 on-track instructed some hot-shot up and coming karting guys. The real life cars act very similiar to the RF2 versions and the iracing versions, and the V4 iracing one was, in my opinion, even more accurate than the V5 iracing one; when taken to the limit around a lap in the hands of a capable driver the V4 seemed to act more true to it's real life counterpart than the V5, yet it seems more people are happy and accepting of the V5 just because it feels more stable and in-control to the player.

It seems sim players nowadays don't want sims anymore, they want 85% sim with compromises/"fudging"/dumbing-down of the last 15% in order to make up for our lack of feeling and connection that you get in real life, and in order to make the driving and lap-times slightly more accesseable to a wider audience, yet still feeling hardcore to most people.

I thought 2012 and on would be the bright ages of simracing with RRRE, RF2, AC, IRacing and so on. However, with the widespread of "sims", I feel the sim developers are being pressured by competition, sales, customers etc. to go for this 85% sim/15% simcade philosophy; if that's the case, then I ask.........

...Are we entering a dark age regarding 100% as hardcore as possible physics racing sims? Is this a new age of "true, industrial style" sims being phased out and replaced by 85% hardcore/15% compromised to "feel good and in control" style sims? I pray for the sake of my number 2 life passion (only number 2 to real life racing) that it is not.
Click to expand...

+100

I had high hopes too. I was super excited about pCARS, mainly because of the team behind the work. I felt they sold out with NFS:Shift in order to get the funds to go on their own and go back to their roots. I was sadly wrong about that. Then I got just a tad excited about AC (I say a tad because I have never been blown away by NKP like so many others) but the Tech Demo killed those hopes and this new beta killed it even more.

It really does look like ISI is the only team that marches to their own drummer and is willing to stick 100% to realism and not go the route all the other teams are going. I hope that people will finally put all their eggs in one basket and start focusing on modding for rF2. iRacing seems to also be sticking to realism too. I haven't had a chance to try NTMv5 yet but v4 still felt a little odd to me where you couldn't catch a slide to save your life. I hear v5 is drastically better in that regard. Although the v4 Skippy felt good to me. It was the C6R in v4 that was really odd to me. Once it started to slide it was nearly impossible to catch.
 
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