GTClub_wajdi
I have both and like both, where is the problem?!
Esteve Rueda
And last thing I can say about that car (that can be taken for GT2 too, and maybe some situations of the rest of the cars):
Compare to this video:
For guys who can't see the difference... let's see how I can easily push full throttle, from 0% to 100% with any reaction, the car totally glued to the track. I did 1:33.8 with any practice, I tried 11 cars in all tracks during 48 hours (10 hours driving I think). So calculate how much practice I have and how easily I almost reach the rel time, 30 mins more driving and I would do 1:32 for sure with default setup. Despite of that I have any problems from min one to push full trottle over kerbs, or in mid turn phase, sometimes the rear end slides, but I don't need to countesteer, I just keep turning and pushing hard, even more weird than I thought xD
Compare side by side how real car have to fight with rear end in some turns when he push more than needed, or in his two laps how he has difficults to do last chicane, a chicne that I do full throttle with any problem, I could do a slightly tighter chicane and would be full throttle too, because I can do this chicane so easily at full throttle. The overal safe feeling is not great.
And in any way, try to do the slides that you can see in my previous video because It's impossible, you will only do something "similar" if ou destroy the setup, with 0 downforce and destroying suspension setup too, and even doing that you will not get the same results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7GjE_PXmtY
PS: I'm not saying the overall quality is bad, if online is well implemented, and the game will have a nice career mode... I will enjoy It so much, for sure, I hope It!!. I'm talking about pure simulation, physics, and the posibility to use It for hard and competitive league racing, I will not choose this sim for that.
Compare to this video:
For guys who can't see the difference... let's see how I can easily push full throttle, from 0% to 100% with any reaction, the car totally glued to the track. I did 1:33.8 with any practice, I tried 11 cars in all tracks during 48 hours (10 hours driving I think). So calculate how much practice I have and how easily I almost reach the rel time, 30 mins more driving and I would do 1:32 for sure with default setup. Despite of that I have any problems from min one to push full trottle over kerbs, or in mid turn phase, sometimes the rear end slides, but I don't need to countesteer, I just keep turning and pushing hard, even more weird than I thought xD
Compare side by side how real car have to fight with rear end in some turns when he push more than needed, or in his two laps how he has difficults to do last chicane, a chicne that I do full throttle with any problem, I could do a slightly tighter chicane and would be full throttle too, because I can do this chicane so easily at full throttle. The overal safe feeling is not great.
And in any way, try to do the slides that you can see in my previous video because It's impossible, you will only do something "similar" if ou destroy the setup, with 0 downforce and destroying suspension setup too, and even doing that you will not get the same results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7GjE_PXmtY
PS: I'm not saying the overall quality is bad, if online is well implemented, and the game will have a nice career mode... I will enjoy It so much, for sure, I hope It!!. I'm talking about pure simulation, physics, and the posibility to use It for hard and competitive league racing, I will not choose this sim for that.
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pas74
quote ++++10000000000!!
there's a difference like the day and the night !!!
in the reality like in the video the pilot make an hard work with the wheel and throttle
in ac it's like driving with a joypad...but kunos said that it's the new era of simracing!! ...THE SIMARCADE SINDROME....
Tuno
Another video to compare
Assetto Corsa has very good physics of suspensions and the tires feel a perfect grip in low speed rf2 grip is minimal, I think in this aspect Assetto feel better.
The FFB conveys very well the weight of the vehicle, that he had not been in any simulator but no effect on curbs.
The graphics are somewhat better than rf2 and FPS is much higher. They are well below the graphics Pcars.
The sounds are good.
Load times are very small.
The clutch is similar to iRacing.
Very good feelings in a beta, hopefully the online come very soon.
Assetto Corsa has very good physics of suspensions and the tires feel a perfect grip in low speed rf2 grip is minimal, I think in this aspect Assetto feel better.
The FFB conveys very well the weight of the vehicle, that he had not been in any simulator but no effect on curbs.
The graphics are somewhat better than rf2 and FPS is much higher. They are well below the graphics Pcars.
The sounds are good.
Load times are very small.
The clutch is similar to iRacing.
Very good feelings in a beta, hopefully the online come very soon.
FOG>Daheee
How can you complain about realism when you are not even running with any FFB on your wheel. Turn that on and then see, you will have to make small adjustments. I do agree though that the car does have a bit too much grip as you should not be able to floor it out of some of the corners.
Esteve Rueda
What the...? No FFB? I have a G27 and pretty well configurated, and I like the AC style, not as much as rF2 FFB, but It's something I like to drive with in AC xD omg... people are awesome. And despite of that, even If I were running with no FFB... does It matter? I don't need to do corrections because the rear wheels don't lose traction in any way and if It lose grip, I don't need to correct beacuse just still turning the wheel the car recorvers grip himself in most of situations (in 0:47 of my lap, I lost the rear end, but I recovered It just still turning, no any correction needed, from external cam was visible how rear wheels slided, but as I said, weird the way It recover grip). The FFB does not matter, the FFB only shows you the car is losing grip, activated or not doesn't change the grip levels. And FFB deos not force you to correct, only shows you when to do.
Repeat, FFB on, at 107% in my profiler, and pretty hard in AC.
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goerekt
I will try AC as soon as there is a multiplayer, even when i have to pay the full price. I would really like to know how the game performs on a AMD HD7850. Anyone?
MarcG
very well indeed, but it is just one car dont forget, the true test will come with AI & MP.
Niksounds
also i think that there is considerable margin of improvement. AC now it isn't a closed box.. indeed!
Mrslfrsl
Eeeep, have to correct myself, by un-checking the look to horizon box or what ever it is called all good.
liebestod
No! Don't turn that off, it's the best thing ever!
It's like a 'lite' version of RealHeadMotion but in the game by default.
Mrslfrsl
No! Don't turn that off, it's the best thing ever!
It's like a 'lite' version of RealHeadMotion but in the game by default.
Hehe no, I don't like that. It's like having some sort of fender in the neck whilst going over the bumps lol.
Marc Collins
Well, I'll jump back in to the thread title that I started (and it somehow got merged with another).
Graphics: on par with rF2 in terms of quality and FPS when settings maxed, so AC does not have the advantage I expected it to in that regard.
FFB: as others have said, I wish it was made clear if they intended to retain the nKP flavour of FFB--that was always my least favourite part of that title. Since there is next to no FFB when hitting curbs,road irregularities, etc., I sure hope that whatever they are planning next is actually physics-based. It's a bit scary to contemplate.
Steering and brake have "gamma" settings to adjust the linearity. The throttle does not and they have chosen to lock-in a very non-linear, dull sensation throttle mapping (presumably to make the high powered cars easier to drive). This is completely expected in a console-level game, but not in a sim. Presumably they will add this adustment later since it already exists for the other two axes, but what is the thinking here? That scares me more than the missing slider in the UI.
Auto-clutch doesn't work as expected, but the gear grinding may be an intentional penalty for using auto-clutch instead of a real one.
Overall lots to like, but any concept that this is a finished product can be thrown out the window. I do feel that Kunos press releases have been disingenuous about the state of completion of the title. On the other hand, I'm happy to test along for a small discount, as I am with pCARS and rF2, which regardless of official statements, is still in beta form and development.
I just hope AC starts to feel and act a lot more like rF2 as it evolves, because it's way too much like pCARS now for my liking.
Graphics: on par with rF2 in terms of quality and FPS when settings maxed, so AC does not have the advantage I expected it to in that regard.
FFB: as others have said, I wish it was made clear if they intended to retain the nKP flavour of FFB--that was always my least favourite part of that title. Since there is next to no FFB when hitting curbs,road irregularities, etc., I sure hope that whatever they are planning next is actually physics-based. It's a bit scary to contemplate.
Steering and brake have "gamma" settings to adjust the linearity. The throttle does not and they have chosen to lock-in a very non-linear, dull sensation throttle mapping (presumably to make the high powered cars easier to drive). This is completely expected in a console-level game, but not in a sim. Presumably they will add this adustment later since it already exists for the other two axes, but what is the thinking here? That scares me more than the missing slider in the UI.
Auto-clutch doesn't work as expected, but the gear grinding may be an intentional penalty for using auto-clutch instead of a real one.
Overall lots to like, but any concept that this is a finished product can be thrown out the window. I do feel that Kunos press releases have been disingenuous about the state of completion of the title. On the other hand, I'm happy to test along for a small discount, as I am with pCARS and rF2, which regardless of official statements, is still in beta form and development.
I just hope AC starts to feel and act a lot more like rF2 as it evolves, because it's way too much like pCARS now for my liking.
Domi
I thought the same initially, but the default setups seem tuned to help those average Steam users to not spin every lap. Stiffen the rear, move the aero balance a bit to the front, and the car is muuuch more alive.
Esteve Rueda
I tried lowering downforce and using stiff suspension, and yes, are "harder" to drive, but the sense of safety and lack of oversteer in high spec cars stills (GT2 and F Abarth). And when they lose grip It loses speed in an extrange way and recover grips again, you can't do powerslides in a way It's supposed to word, and this rear grip issue in slides is in all cars, also in street cars (but despite of that this cars are great to drive). In reality It's not hard to powerslide with BMW E30, but in AC you lose much speed when sliding and you suddenly recover grip again.
It's not bad to drive, I have fun driving these cars, but I said before that It's only about physics I.m talking about (the overall quality is great), how accurate they are.
FOG>Daheee
Well thats very weird how the Grey bar on your Pedals app does not move at all which is why I mentioned it. This would indicate that FFB is present. And I was not having a go at you so dont get all defensive we are having a discussion here thats all.
FOG>Daheee
I got a 7950 Boost and it runs great in fact alot better than rf2 for me so you should be good to go.
smithaz
You are right Esteve, Assetto does have a sort of excess of grip, I thought the exact same thing when I drove the Formula Abarth. I don't know how anybody can defend it! For me it is the realisation that AC is just a Forza for PC, it is not at all like rFactor where the limit is easy to overstep and difficult to go fast.
Domi
Dunno, I was trying to push a lot the F Abarth (stiffen rear, more front aero) and it is much more tricky, especially on corner entry. I would never say it lacks sense of safety, even less if I was really driving the real car
Domi
I must be playing different games.
Esteve Rueda
Dunno, I was trying to push a lot the F Abarth (stiffen rear, more front aero) and it is much more tricky, especially on corner entry. I would never say it lacks sense of safety, even less if I was really driving the real car
In the entry the car behaves "right", I'm talking about powerslide, mid turn phase, and exists. In entrys you can lose the car at the end of braking (I lose It in my video in a turn), but that doesn't mean realistic, because the problem if as soons as you lose the rear end the car lose speed so fast and then recover grip again, with no need to countersteer, and with no options to powerslide or do "microdrift", or controlled micro sliding like you can do in rF2 in the limit, dance with the car in the edge of grip (and of course you can in real life as I showed you in Formula Abarth video and lots you can find in YT).
I'm not sure if all of you understand what I'm talking about
PS: and about my video with no FFB bar... It's just because is a replay, I can't race while recording due stuttering.
kimikaze
Well, from cockpit perspective, the graphic really isn't so much better, specially looking at tracks. But TV replays, yes there is big difference. AC is there best looking pc game period.
GTClub_wajdi
Anyone else think that the Tatuus from AC feels exactly as the F3 of MAK-corp in rf2?
liebestod
Slooooow down, not by a long shot.
Spinelli
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Spinelli
With all of Kunos' hardcore sim experience with the first netkar, then netkar pro and now the years already put into AC, I find results like the ones you and others found of overly easy, planted, non-deep seeming physics extremely disappointing on Kunos' part.
Is this a repeat of the whole GTR2 saga where in order to give ppl a high feeling of grip and stability they ended up completely dumbing down/simplifying the car's physics?
Your above videos and analyzations show (to me) that in order to give the AC version the same sense of grip and pwer-to-grip ratio as the real life version, that Kunos had to really dumb down the car.
This whole idea of dumbing things down in order for the user to have a similiar to real-life experience, drives me INSANE. It's the reason I didnt spend more than a week playing stock GTR2 and it's part of the reason (but not the only reason) I could never get on with netkar pro.
Funny thing is though after watching the above videos I checked some more AC open-wheel onboards and then some NK Pro open-wheel onboards....and I swear the NK Pro ones seem like they have more fidelity to their physics.
Also has anyone else noticed some weird overly stiff hoping from the stiffer cars (particularly the open wheel cars) around mid corner and slightly past? Seems SUPER exaggerated.....
I have been noticing this seeming issue in AC for a long time now. The car seems to recover grip in a weird way from a slide like there is some weird aid on that only comes on at certain times to help the car stop rotating and grip again.
I completely understand. Every word in your post is what I have been noticing in TONS of Assetto Corsa videos, going back to even before the tech demo. It's exactly what I was thinking and you put it into words perfectlyIn the entry the car behaves "right", I'm talking about powerslide, mid turn phase, and exists. In entrys you can lose the car at the end of braking (I lose It in my video in a turn), but that doesn't mean realistic, because the problem if as soons as you lose the rear end the car lose speed so fast and then recover grip again, with no need to countersteer, and with no options to powerslide or do "microdrift", or controlled micro sliding like you can do in rF2 in the limit, dance with the car in the edge of grip (and of course you can in real life as I showed you in Formula Abarth video and lots you can find in YT).
I'm not sure if all of you understand what I'm talking about
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Davy TASB
Assetto's car interiors are a notch better than most rF2 interiors but otherwise AC aint yet the rF2 killer some people thought it might have been.
Both sims are very good and hopefully each sim will inspire the other one to even better things.
Both sims are very good and hopefully each sim will inspire the other one to even better things.
samuelw
AC is a bright shiney object but I believe I will pass on it for a while. I believe Kunos wishes to reach a larger audience but I've always lived in a niche. Nothing wrong with wanting a large audience for your work. I note several who have argued here that rF2's physics are woefully lacking have now apparently found their sim of choice.
sw
sw
Domi
Come on, cockpit details are x3 more detailed than any rF2 car (well, even good looking rF1 mods have better cockpits than ISI's rF2 cars), there isn't even comparison possible. Tracks are also much better (and detailed, laser scanned). And yeah, on replays AC is just 10 years ahead of rF2.
Also lowering details gives you a framerate boost, but the quality loss isn't huge like in rF2, which looks like very like an outdated game under those circumstances.
Jamie Shorting
Have to admit those videos that Esteve posted support is argument very well. Anyway, by trying this you can clearly see that its quite early in development and is going to need much more time. Ill give it a go again in a couple of months.
kimikaze
Yep, clearly AC is step back from hard core sim racer and step closer to wider not so hard core audience. Title want to be selling
But that don't mean it has bad physics. I actually believe it has even better than rf2. I see problem more in bad translation between physics model and wheel. Controls has a lot of lag. Input is simply not so direct. There where rf2 FFB and input controls shine. Is simply the state of the art. We have in our wheel in any moment with no dealbreaking lag everything what rf2 physics model can produce.Minibull
That's one thing I have noticed. Seems like it should be a skipping and shuffling from the tyres across the track, especially with the stiff vehicles. Sometimes it seems like it is almost a scripted event happening, and the car bounces all over the place while seemingly not affecting the driving.
The other thing is it seems like the bounce movement is being taken up by some very soft suspension in the GT2 and the open wheeler, rather than the feeling of the tyre taking some of the impact. They just seem a bit soft atm, like there is no damping to some of the movements. Pretty sure the dampers won't comply too well with massive and fast impacts over and over like when the cars start bouncing around.
Love the way the tyres chatter in this vid, something I see most at Estoril with the FR 3.5
I'll just be enjoying it for the road cars, and some of the nice licences they have got in it. It's good that it is out too, as it gives something for everyone to enjoy now, as some people are loving it and it's what they have been looking for in a sim, which is great to see.
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DurgeDriven
I am into Historics so my view is slanted...........
For mine the pCARS/AC/iRacing style will never suit Historic Tracks, they look too clean too clinical, Monza looks like it was built last week
I drive any Historic track in rF2 I feel like I am there.
I actually asked on wishlist to have some stained and cracked glass in pits, and lengthen the grass even in rF2 Monza and Spa parts are like it was mowed every week.
pCARS and AC have this long manicured looking grass which just looks wrong if you look at Historical pics.
For mine it is like comparing Rush and Grand Prix, they are both fantastic movies, GP may have been shot on Kodak's Eastmancolor which lacked the quality of today ..........but it made me feel like I was back there.
Adrianstealth
my pc is throwing AC around , now locked fps at 121fps (same as iracing ) but AC's visuals are quite pretty.
controllers calibrated in AC 1st time no probs
tripple screen 3d vision too
this is such a great time to be in sim racing , happy days
I dont see my sim software changing for a long long time now rf2/iracing/AC
my pc is struggling to run rf2 at the moment, I'm hoping that will change again in the next build hopefully pre xmas hols ( & my controller problem in rf2 )
controllers calibrated in AC 1st time no probs
tripple screen 3d vision too
this is such a great time to be in sim racing , happy days
I dont see my sim software changing for a long long time now rf2/iracing/AC
my pc is struggling to run rf2 at the moment, I'm hoping that will change again in the next build hopefully pre xmas hols ( & my controller problem in rf2 )
realkman666
I think that a lot of people don't know that if you get the right HDR profile for the track, max shadows and at least 4xAA, rFactor 2 looks mighty fine and far from being 10 years behind Assetto Corsa.
kro388th
Its not a level playing field at this point When comparing frame rates from AC to Rf2 ,dont forget that AC has 1 car on track ,a canned sky /atmosphere nothing rely going on beyond the car on the track , no dynamic weather, sky no real-road ectt.. it should be massively faster when it only has to render a few things in real time compared to rf2's massive list of things going on in the 3d world , and/so it is faster ! also remember rf2's FFB uses 400hz while AC comes in at 250hz for those who havent seen this post over at AC have a read >
snip>
Hello All,
this is Fredric at LifeOn2 Development, I develop high end FFB wheel systems, both HW and SW.
(Improvement suggestions in green below)
I have now had 90 min or so in AC Early Access, and I made a quick analysis of the FFB traffic it generates:
AC Early Access uses two FFB effects, Constant Force and Damper. Damper strength is static and remains as set by the user in the control config interface.
The Constant Force effect magnitude updates at 250 Hz, which is higher than in the first Technology Preview, where I measured it to 200 Hz. For comparison (and which most of you know by now...), rFactor2 updates at 400 Hz and iRacing at 60 Hz. With a high end wheel, it is a very significant difference between 60 and 400 Hz, and a noticeable difference between 250 and 400 Hz (and yes, higher is better )
As some of you might remember, back when I analyzed the FFB traffic of the Technology Preview, I noticed quite a lot of redundant FFB traffic. I discussed this with Stefano, and he fixed that in the second Technology Preview (or at least he said he would). When I look at the Early Access FFB traffic, the redundant traffic is back! With the USB FFB drivers I use atm, 90% of the FFB traffic volume on the USB bus is redundant and can (should) be removed. rFactor2 does a great job here (in keeping redundant traffic low), and iRacing too after a clean up David did some time ago.
Of course a "clever" FFB device driver stack can filter out redundant traffic using some logic, but I think most drivers are not that clever and just do what the caller asks them to.
One more thing I noticed is that AC Early Access sets damper strength in an unorthodox way. This way of doing it leaves some room for interpretation on how it should be implemented in the FFB device firmware (the FFB protocol documentation is not crystal clear here), so IMO it is better to do it the way both iRacing and ISI, plus a reference Microsoft implementation does it.
As for FFB feel, all-through good physics and vehicle (dynamics) models yield good FFB, and with my limited seat time I would say FFB is good in many respects, and in some extremely good.
--- LifeOn2 Development : High End FFB Technology & Systems ---
<snip
Great vid of RF2's tire deformation , ill bet theirs more data in that one tire then in AC's entire car <JK>! could be why rf2 users feel theirs something left out with AC's FFB feel ,AC runs smooth with my 6970 on med settings as does rf2 while rf2 struggles a bit , i expect that with all the data that has to be processed for a single lap! I can turn things down a bit and have great racing .. Im among the people that are glad to see more options for this hobby we all have ! I will say im a little disappointed in the fact that AC is looking more like simcade than sim , proving again looks aren't everything it comes close and i will be driving it ..lol glad we have RF2 for that realism itch ;-)
snip>
Hello All,
this is Fredric at LifeOn2 Development, I develop high end FFB wheel systems, both HW and SW.
(Improvement suggestions in green below)
I have now had 90 min or so in AC Early Access, and I made a quick analysis of the FFB traffic it generates:
AC Early Access uses two FFB effects, Constant Force and Damper. Damper strength is static and remains as set by the user in the control config interface.
The Constant Force effect magnitude updates at 250 Hz, which is higher than in the first Technology Preview, where I measured it to 200 Hz. For comparison (and which most of you know by now...), rFactor2 updates at 400 Hz and iRacing at 60 Hz. With a high end wheel, it is a very significant difference between 60 and 400 Hz, and a noticeable difference between 250 and 400 Hz (and yes, higher is better )
As some of you might remember, back when I analyzed the FFB traffic of the Technology Preview, I noticed quite a lot of redundant FFB traffic. I discussed this with Stefano, and he fixed that in the second Technology Preview (or at least he said he would). When I look at the Early Access FFB traffic, the redundant traffic is back! With the USB FFB drivers I use atm, 90% of the FFB traffic volume on the USB bus is redundant and can (should) be removed. rFactor2 does a great job here (in keeping redundant traffic low), and iRacing too after a clean up David did some time ago.
Of course a "clever" FFB device driver stack can filter out redundant traffic using some logic, but I think most drivers are not that clever and just do what the caller asks them to.
One more thing I noticed is that AC Early Access sets damper strength in an unorthodox way. This way of doing it leaves some room for interpretation on how it should be implemented in the FFB device firmware (the FFB protocol documentation is not crystal clear here), so IMO it is better to do it the way both iRacing and ISI, plus a reference Microsoft implementation does it.
As for FFB feel, all-through good physics and vehicle (dynamics) models yield good FFB, and with my limited seat time I would say FFB is good in many respects, and in some extremely good.
--- LifeOn2 Development : High End FFB Technology & Systems ---
<snip
Great vid of RF2's tire deformation , ill bet theirs more data in that one tire then in AC's entire car <JK>! could be why rf2 users feel theirs something left out with AC's FFB feel ,AC runs smooth with my 6970 on med settings as does rf2 while rf2 struggles a bit , i expect that with all the data that has to be processed for a single lap! I can turn things down a bit and have great racing .. Im among the people that are glad to see more options for this hobby we all have ! I will say im a little disappointed in the fact that AC is looking more like simcade than sim , proving again looks aren't everything it comes close and i will be driving it ..lol glad we have RF2 for that realism itch ;-)
Marc Collins
Marc Collins
Grand Prix was shot "live" during the F1 season it was representing, so it was pretty easy to get the authentic settings and feel!!!!!!!!!!
F2Chump
I've been warning people for YEARS that this would happen if everyone just drove and screamed OMG this "sim" rocks without any critical analysis.
That vid of Costa getting the Arbath sideways makes GSC 2013 F3 seem more like the real thing.
GSC 2013 is the best sim of all time on my G27, and I see no reason why that would change if I moved to another wheel as it won't change the tire model just the FFB etc.
Btw....Great work Esteve.....
F2Chump
Just for the record, AC still has the potential to be one of the best racing games ever made, but the rear end of these cars all feel like TC is still on even after I disable both ABS and TC.
I should also point out that it's the "rear" that's the problem, as the road cars are rightly or wrongly loaded with understeer.