F2Chump
It'll do well at 1080p, won't be able to fully max it, but close......no need for an upgrade that's for sure.
7950 here...
It'll do well at 1080p, won't be able to fully max it, but close......no need for an upgrade that's for sure.
7950 here...
captslow
I am very pleased with AC as it is just the first release with I am sure many improvements to come - now that said, I am surprised that none here has mentioned the x-bow in AC, its my favorite car at the moment and men it rocks, the interior view is just mind boggling concerning details and clarity. Also have any of you noticed the amazing details like the vibrating shift knob in the classic Lotus? Its these details were AC really shines for me. I drive a 500 Abarth in real life and also enjoy the digital version in AC which is pretty close. Anyhow, just my 2 cents, yes there are lots of areas that will need improvement but again with it being the 1st official build, its amazing for what it is. Cheers
Marvin Morgan
This thread pretty much is what I expected to read except for the actual FFB and physics. I definitely was expecting if it wasn't dead equal to rf2 it would actually be better but so much for that. I think I'll pass on this one until further in the development stage.
Domi
Good luck playing with max shadows on a 20 car grid, at least with AMD cards.
But well, even with max shadows it's still way off.
Minibull
o0thx11380o
With all of Kunos' hardcore sim experience with the first netkar, then netkar pro and now the years already put into AC, I find results like the ones you and others found of overly easy, planted, non-deep seeming physics extremely disappointing on Kunos' part.
Is this a repeat of the whole GTR2 saga where in order to give ppl a high feeling of grip and stability they ended up completely dumbing down/simplifying the car's physics?
Your above videos and analyzations show (to me) that in order to give the AC version the same sense of grip and pwer-to-grip ratio as the real life version, that Kunos had to really dumb down the car.
This whole idea of dumbing things down in order for the user to have a similiar to real-life experience, drives me INSANE. It's the reason I didnt spend more than a week playing stock GTR2 and it's part of the reason (but not the only reason) I could never get on with netkar pro.
Funny thing is though after watching the above videos I checked some more AC open-wheel onboards and then some NK Pro open-wheel onboards....and I swear the NK Pro ones seem like they have more fidelity to their physics.
Also has anyone else noticed some weird overly stiff hoping from the stiffer cars (particularly the open wheel cars) around mid corner and slightly past? Seems SUPER exaggerated.....
I have been noticing this seeming issue in AC for a long time now. The car seems to recover grip in a weird way from a slide like there is some weird aid on that only comes on at certain times to help the car stop rotating and grip again.
I completely understand. Every word in your post is what I have been noticing in TONS of Assetto Corsa videos, going back to even before the tech demo. It's exactly what I was thinking and you put it into words perfectly
Over on the Kunos forums a dev commented on this car and about the grip questions. he said that they had this car at their studio and the track that the studio is at, many many times. He said that every single statistic about the car, be it grip strength at certain mph, or around a turn, and suspension... everything about the virtual version matches up with the data recordings of the real thing in every way. I can't find the post right now, but it was interesting. I wish the cars were more challenging to drive, but if its real its real. i guess it just comes down to if you trust kunos.
SripleTix
Guys, we have "THE" formula Abarth, 20 meters under our offices several times every year. We use AC one to prepare newbies and to train veteran drivers. We had access to any kind of data that exist, and the telemetry (at vallelunga, same track) says that our DOES it on the same way: second gear, full throttle, no dangers, full grip...
Laptimes are difficult to compare. Before driving the real one, Instructors brainwash drivers on how much does cost to even scratch one, how much to bend a suspension arm ecc ecc
But you don't know how many times we could literally overlap telemetries...
You have to live with it.
Laptimes are difficult to compare. Before driving the real one, Instructors brainwash drivers on how much does cost to even scratch one, how much to bend a suspension arm ecc ecc
But you don't know how many times we could literally overlap telemetries...
You have to live with it.
Minibull
The interesting bit there is the virtual version matches up to the data recordings. No idea how they matched it up, but I'm guessing to measure grip, they measure gforce being carried by the car, and measure it at various points at a track to make sure it is in the right area, i.e not flying through a hairpin at twice the speed of the real thing.
While I don't doubt what they say and the work they've done, maybe its the way it gets to that peak level is whats bothering people. Not so much the outright grip, but the ease in getting to that level and then they way it acts going over that limit.
The vid someone posted of the real car at Vallelunga shows the driver putting in very little lock exiting turns, and sometimes correcting slight slides that go a bit too far. Balancing on that edge. The video from the game at the same track is way different. Same laptime roughly, and probably the same kinds of corner speed but they got those times in what look like 2 different cars in the way they act. Hope this makes sense XD
Tukkeuma
Its funny how some people think that the most difficult sim must be the most realistic. I own both sims and yes, Assetto corsa is more grippy and easier to drive, but i don't think its a bad thing. First time i drove skip barber in RF2 i was spinning the car all the time. It feels like driving on ice honestly. There is no way real life car would be that difficult to drive on dry tarmac. Anyone who has driven a go-cart on dry tarmac knows how much grip it has in real life, and i don't think skip barber would be that much worse.
Led566
I do see a difference: the two videos have completely different POV.
My experience on the AC Taatus is different than yours.
Still I won't be able to go under 1:36 (of course you are a better simracer than me and it's clear from your video
) but what I saw is in line with the Nicolas Costa video.Esteve Rueda
That car is driving on ice if you use regional version, litterally, you have to make use of grat driving techniques to push that cars, just search few vdeos about rookies spinning around at 80km/h like they were in oil. Most of time you will see proffesional guys driving smooth and fast, and also simdrivers driving smooth and fast too, with some corrections needed sometimes. To see cars spinning in real life in YT videos is not as usual as see good drivers because videos you see is as I said from proffesionals, but with Skip is a good example of real life of what happen when you do not use the correct way to drive the car:
This guy is not pushing, he is going really slow, but the incorrect throttle input makes him to spin.
It's not about hard or easy, It's about the need to use the correct driving techniques. GTR in rF2 can be hard at begining, but learning how the car behaves and learning how to drive It fast... It's a beast with tond of grip and an awesome turn speed. In AC you don't need to take care about little details, yes, you also need to know how to drive fast, but no more, you can be as aggressive as you want and you will hardly spin, and if you spin will be because you did something weird... my video shows how I push from 0% to 100% throttle with any car reaction, the POV doesn't matter, see at pedals telemetry, full throttle over some kerbs in mid turn phase and full throttle in a chicane where in real life It's impossible to do easily in that way.
And Kunos saying that laptimes are totally matched and also you need to master and learn the car to match real ones... makes me laugh, no more than 15 laps needed to almost reach Lacosta's time in Vallelunga with any sense of being at the grip limit, I'm only limited by understeer. I'm sure with 30 mins of training I could do 1 secong faster than Lacosta with default setup, I don't know how fast with a nice one...
Was said before... but It seems like Kunos is wanting to match the "feeling of driving the car" with no care about real reactions, you can drive fast with less kick ass reactions than in realiyty to get a nice driving time. It's weird how easy a "decent" simdriver can match realtimes with no practice, I'm far from be an alien, so much people are faster than me, and I needed only 15-20 laps to match real time in Vallelunga with F Abarth, and 15-20 laps to match real times it Imola with GT2.
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Niksounds
uhm
but the tyres are the same?
but the tyres are the same?
Esteve Rueda
If you are talking about Skip Barber, yes, regional version have street tyres. The difference against regional is that national can be pushed harder, less braking distance, more cornering speed, and more grippy feeling, youu can push earlier in corner exits. I think is easier to drive, but you need to use the correct driving techniques too to drive It, if you release throttle pedal from 100% to 0% during turning you will get a kick in the ass as in regional version.
realkman666
What's the problem with AMD?
Tukkeuma
Well of course there is no skip barber in AC so direct comparison is impossible. Maybe it would be really difficult to drive in AC too, i don't know. Anyway this is direct quote from Aristotelis (one of the developers of AC): "...actually, while working on AC many times me and Stefano are discussing about "is it really that much grip sensation correct?" and we go to double check values, data and real life experience." Because they do real life testing, i trust that the game is close to reality too.
Don't get me wrong, i like rFactor2 too but i personally find AC grip levels being closer to real life.
Don't get me wrong, i like rFactor2 too but i personally find AC grip levels being closer to real life.
speed1
I don't want to go into the details here, if i would be interested in i would do this in the forum provided for this purpose. It is an incomplete beta and it was not fair to make a final judgment and for the first run it is still impressive imho. There are only few details that need to be optimized and the goal is reached, except from the already complete missed features. To what extent this is good, bad or is simulated i don't know.
However, I see no deformation of the tire, even worse, i feel nothing. It also completely lacks dynamism and the steering rack is too slow. The entire kinematic seems to be eliminated by the steering sim and the feeling is based only on the surface/patch, regulated by patch load and aligned on the longitudinal axis with the help of strong constant centering spring forces. Any damping effect, adds to it.
As already mentioned i have the feeling the tyre physics is simplified and the steering bad interpreted, at least ffb wise. Lets see what the updates will do for me but atm i'm not going to drive it much.
However, I see no deformation of the tire, even worse, i feel nothing. It also completely lacks dynamism and the steering rack is too slow. The entire kinematic seems to be eliminated by the steering sim and the feeling is based only on the surface/patch, regulated by patch load and aligned on the longitudinal axis with the help of strong constant centering spring forces. Any damping effect, adds to it.
As already mentioned i have the feeling the tyre physics is simplified and the steering bad interpreted, at least ffb wise. Lets see what the updates will do for me but atm i'm not going to drive it much.
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Esteve Rueda
Well... to get same cornering G force, and the same acceleration, doesn't matter. In rF2 you can get the same cornering G forces in every car as real equivalents, I'm sure in AC too. The problem is... how do you get that grip? in AC you need nothing, just turn your whell and push, the car will limit you in most of cases by understeer and sometimes with an extrange power loss when It would begin to slide (and no, I have not TC, with TC It's just weird how It works xD), you will rarely break the point you begin to slide and need to countersteer in this cars in habitual situations (You can do It only if you force to get It). In rF2 you can get the same or even more grip, but to get It you need a setup, and to drive fine and smooth, balancing correctly your car and not pushing more than needed. In AC you can push more than needed and nothing happens, you can't overdrive the car a Lacosta's do in Hungaroring, to can't exit a corner pushng full throttle and sliding the car as you can clearly see in videos I'm talking about.
And saying this... what is correct? AC forced grip levels or rF2 where you need to find that grip because It really exists?
Would you say this is a slippery car? This guy do It looks easy only beacuse he is driving It correctly, grip levels are totally OK, It's an awesome lap, even more grip than in real life I would say... :
And saying this... what is correct? AC forced grip levels or rF2 where you need to find that grip because It really exists?
Would you say this is a slippery car? This guy do It looks easy only beacuse he is driving It correctly, grip levels are totally OK, It's an awesome lap, even more grip than in real life I would say...
:speed1
I'm assuming it's ( grip feeling ) intent (steam release) and i would consider it simply as satisfactory but not outstanding and completely correct.
Adrianstealth
Re.modding for AC, there seems to be some in progress already, no idea what sort of job modders will have working with AC although there seems to be some pretty handy "apps" that pull in from the side, (if dev mode enabled ) that's how's tire dynamics etc
i hope no one minds me posting these here (especially the creators of these wip mods )
i hope no one minds me posting these here (especially the creators of these wip mods )
zonder
I was waiting for My SimVibe to include finally update so i can enjoy my ButtKicking Rig, and i got that message : *-Added basic support for the Asseto Corsa Beta
* Please note that some effects may not function or not function as well as they would in other games. Assetto Corsa does not provide all of the critical data elements required for professional motion and tactile feedback therefore overall quality is reduced relative to other more robust simulation games.
Hmm does that mean is still early for Assetto, or is it going to share shelve with GT5?
* Please note that some effects may not function or not function as well as they would in other games. Assetto Corsa does not provide all of the critical data elements required for professional motion and tactile feedback therefore overall quality is reduced relative to other more robust simulation games.
Hmm does that mean is still early for Assetto, or is it going to share shelve with GT5?
speed1
@Adrianstealth
Yes i'm sure there will be some great stuff growing up for the sim and the thing with the apps i like as well but at the moment i'm not in love with the feeling.
Yes i'm sure there will be some great stuff growing up for the sim and the thing with the apps i like as well but at the moment i'm not in love with the feeling.
MarcG
it's well known that rf2 performs better with nvidia than amd based cards.
Adrianstealth
Speed1
I'm currently in 2 minds
I'm so use & tuned in to iracings physics (radical sr8 ) at the moment that anything different will feel strange to me
Kunos seem to do things differently with AC, some are totally raving about it already others like me are sitting on the fence
Although first signs it does feel quality
I adapt to rf2 quite we'll because I used to use rf1 so much, some rf2 mods feel a tad flat to me but some are I think some of the very top in sim racing
Also some Iracing cars feel pathetic to me, yet the radical amongst others are a total blast
Rf1 was successful on the strength of its better mods, remember the initial release? It got much better from there with time.
Rf2 for me right now is a mess ( fps went down the drain, controller problems now) but this is just me , lots are really enjoying it ( I hope things will come good for me on the next build )
I'm currently in 2 minds
I'm so use & tuned in to iracings physics (radical sr8 ) at the moment that anything different will feel strange to me
Kunos seem to do things differently with AC, some are totally raving about it already others like me are sitting on the fence
Although first signs it does feel quality
I adapt to rf2 quite we'll because I used to use rf1 so much, some rf2 mods feel a tad flat to me but some are I think some of the very top in sim racing
Also some Iracing cars feel pathetic to me, yet the radical amongst others are a total blast
Rf1 was successful on the strength of its better mods, remember the initial release? It got much better from there with time.
Rf2 for me right now is a mess ( fps went down the drain, controller problems now) but this is just me , lots are really enjoying it ( I hope things will come good for me on the next build )
Adrianstealth
AC apparently currently has it's data outputs teathered to the fps, simcommander 3 is all gunned up to feed actuators etc at a rate of 250 updates per second, so if we have a totally solid fps in AC of 250fps then no problem we'll benefit from the same consistent quality of other sims,
However right now ( assuming no one has a PC isn't from outer space ) a lot of users have much lower fps than 250
So if your only getting 60fps in AC, AC will only be sending 60 updates per second to motion
I have my fps max locked at 120fps, it doesn't dip below ( very happy with details & look ) but maybe when other cars introduced ( through online etc, I never bother with AI ) if fps reduces at parts of track etc this will be felt in the actuators
!*!?!
Devs at kunos haven't replied to questions about this yet but hopefully they'll sort it
Not sure how noticeable it will be with sim vibe
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speed1
I'm sure there will be something for everyone but it needs really much time, allmost 2 years the current gen's are public but still no one is really ready to go in basics.
peterchen
Hi folks!
I´ve read the whole thread with big interest, but what is obvious is that some (most) people
here (and in other forums) compare the heavy street cars in AC with the pure racing cars in rF2.
Quotes like " the weight transfer in AC is sooo noticeable and cool in comparison to..." are
laughable: surely the weight transfer will be much more noticeable in this relatively heavy and soft street cars!
So the cars in both sims are not really camarable.
But I know there is a Lotus 49 in AC which should be very similar to the rF2 historic formula racers.
Please can someone compare this two in detail and in a scientific, analytical manner?
Anyone please?
Thanks in advance!
Greets
Pete
I´ve read the whole thread with big interest, but what is obvious is that some (most) people
here (and in other forums) compare the heavy street cars in AC with the pure racing cars in rF2.
Quotes like " the weight transfer in AC is sooo noticeable and cool in comparison to..." are
laughable: surely the weight transfer will be much more noticeable in this relatively heavy and soft street cars!
So the cars in both sims are not really camarable.
But I know there is a Lotus 49 in AC which should be very similar to the rF2 historic formula racers.
Please can someone compare this two in detail and in a scientific, analytical manner?
Anyone please?
Thanks in advance!
Greets
Pete
Led566
Yes it is "well known" but when I asked for real benchmarks none showed up.
As a matter of fact my 7950 performs inline with Max Angelo (mod of the italian subforum) GTX760.
And runs sooo good AC DX11.
Led566
Someone should build a skid pad for AC (rF2 does have one)!
FWIW running the rF2 Spark in Monza and the AC Lotus 49 in Monza did provide very similar experience (and nearly same lap times).
rF2 ffb is better though.
realkman666
Esteve Rueda
I tested a lot GT2 and F Abarth, only few laps at Monza and Imola with Lotus 49... but I will test deeper that car because can be a nice one to compare.
But my first impression was not good... default setup at Monza is crap for me. The car understeers heavily, and to break is sooo easy, despite having bad brakes and stone tyres you can breake It easily, and at high speeds you will never suffer oversteer. In Imola works different, in Imola you can "play" with It, slide and that stuff, but in a strange way, the car lose and recovers grip really fast, too aggressive, as soon as you begin to slide you countersteer and rear wheels gain grip suddenly, It's hard to explain... as I said, I will test this car as comparison because is a good starting point.
Oh... BMW is a GT2 and is totally different from all rF2 GT2s... pure grip and no way to oversteer with default setups, and if you touch setup, you can get oversteer but always in that strange way you lose speed fast when slide and then the car recovers grip suddely again like nothing happened.
And I found even more weird things in my latest test runs... sometimes when turning, you can push full throttle and RPMS goes to max like you were sliding rear wheels... but the strange thing is you have not to countersteer, the rear wheels don't slide despite they are spinning faster than car speed. You still turning and pushing throttle like you were not spinning your wheels, crazy.
I'm more angry the more I use it. See at this bug, in NKPro happened too... new physics engine? and the same bugs than previous title? the car seems like not connected to track, like physics were scripted and not properly simulated, if properly simulated this could not happen in so simple situations:
Edit: I discovered that this bug can be produced by a kind of simulation engine and happens in other sims too (I didn't see it in rF2 yet
), and does not mean a bad simulation, but despite of that there is lots of strange behaviours like wheels spinning faster than ground speed in mid turn phase with no oversteer signs, that is something even more weird.
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Max Angelo
Led566
Actually i am a former mod, since about 5 weeks ago.
Too bad...I was hoping you were gettin back in the saddle
Max Angelo
Say so ... beeing a "Knowledgable Person", as stated in the forum leaders page, has a price which i dont intend to pay.
I guess to be a scrooge man.
Back to the topic, anyone knows if Assetto Corsa is still using the pure Pacejka "magic formula" tire model or if it moved to something different?
I guess to be a scrooge man.
Back to the topic, anyone knows if Assetto Corsa is still using the pure Pacejka "magic formula" tire model or if it moved to something different?
Johannes Rojola
I believe it does, check out the Esteve Rueda's post above showcasing infamous Pacejka math bug.
Domi
tsunamibr
No.
tsunamibr
Say so ... beeing a "Knowledgable Person", as stated in the forum leaders page, has a price which i dont intend to pay.
I guess to be a scrooge man.
Back to the topic, anyone knows if Assetto Corsa is still using the pure Pacejka "magic formula" tire model or if it moved to something different?
You guys are getting way off the reality, and deep into any biased rumour you hear around. I just had to do a simple search to find this interview, and the right answer to this question. No, Kunos isn't using anything Pacejka related, even since the NetKar Pro era.
Stop making false assumptions. Besides, their simulation is being used by several racing houses around the world, and AFAIK is one of the main reasons the game did get delayed. It isn't by no means arcade-ish, as some may allege here, quite the opposite. I'm not in any side in this discussion, I'm just pointing out that there are some irrefutable facts that people seems to disconsider in this thread.
http://www.radicalsonline.com/conte...peaks-about-his-life-simracing-and-netKar-PRO
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Marc Collins
I think this is the key for me (to use as an overall assessment metric). I wonder how many others will have the same experience?
NWDogg
A friend gave me a chance to try this out for a little bit. Now, I tried NKpro before, and I thought it was pretty poor, so I didn't expect much out of AC. That said though, I was actually even more underwhelmed than I thought I would be. The graphics looked pretty decent...that's a positive I guess, but not world's better than rF2. Just a tad better than iRacing I think. As far as positives, that's about it actually.
The force feedback is bad, in my opinion. It is too 'springy' for lack of a better word, and has very little detail to it. Sure, the feeling of weight is there, but nothing else. No feel of grip, no feel of what the car is doing underneath you, and it does some weird shaking back-and-forth thing when you brake. Overall, it feels terrible.
Physics are not too bad I guess, but not nearly on the same level as rF2, or iRacing. The Lotus 49 would NOT slide around a corner and take throttle steering like the BT20. It just understeers. Giving more throttle just pushes the car out, so you don't get that really fun 'driving with the throttle' effect like in rF2. The other cars aren't much better, and some actually felt even worse. Whether it is realistic or not, it doesn't much matter to me when it feels so dead and boring as it does in AC.
The tracks are ok...I really liked Imola. Silverstone wasn't a good layout (are there other layouts even? I didn't ask my friend) and the others I've never even heard of, but they looked ok. Not incredible, but not bad.
I realized something about 30 minutes into playing it that I haven't seen anyone else say. That is, AC doesn't seem to compete with the likes of rF2 or iRacing. It is more a direct competitor to Raceroom Experience. The physics feel similar, they are both on Steam, they both focus on more casual game modes like 'Time Attack' and special events and hotlapping, the content is almost exactly the same (European road stuff only), and the force-feedback in both has that tight center-spring feeling. So it's not exactly fair to AC to compare it to rF2 imo. With that mindset, I can say that AC is doing pretty well against Raceroom so far, but I do prefer Raceroom's FFB more so it wins out overall.
All in all, I didn't have a great impression of AC in its current state. It needs quite a lot of work to become a game that is worth purchasing for me. Even with a huge overhaul of just about everything, though, it will still not interest me because it will probably never have the type of content that I really care about, unlike rF2 or iRacing. I imagine others will like it though, and that is fine, as there can never be enough racing games to satisfy all different tastes.
The force feedback is bad, in my opinion. It is too 'springy' for lack of a better word, and has very little detail to it. Sure, the feeling of weight is there, but nothing else. No feel of grip, no feel of what the car is doing underneath you, and it does some weird shaking back-and-forth thing when you brake. Overall, it feels terrible.
Physics are not too bad I guess, but not nearly on the same level as rF2, or iRacing. The Lotus 49 would NOT slide around a corner and take throttle steering like the BT20. It just understeers. Giving more throttle just pushes the car out, so you don't get that really fun 'driving with the throttle' effect like in rF2. The other cars aren't much better, and some actually felt even worse. Whether it is realistic or not, it doesn't much matter to me when it feels so dead and boring as it does in AC.
The tracks are ok...I really liked Imola. Silverstone wasn't a good layout (are there other layouts even? I didn't ask my friend) and the others I've never even heard of, but they looked ok. Not incredible, but not bad.
I realized something about 30 minutes into playing it that I haven't seen anyone else say. That is, AC doesn't seem to compete with the likes of rF2 or iRacing. It is more a direct competitor to Raceroom Experience. The physics feel similar, they are both on Steam, they both focus on more casual game modes like 'Time Attack' and special events and hotlapping, the content is almost exactly the same (European road stuff only), and the force-feedback in both has that tight center-spring feeling. So it's not exactly fair to AC to compare it to rF2 imo. With that mindset, I can say that AC is doing pretty well against Raceroom so far, but I do prefer Raceroom's FFB more so it wins out overall.
All in all, I didn't have a great impression of AC in its current state. It needs quite a lot of work to become a game that is worth purchasing for me. Even with a huge overhaul of just about everything, though, it will still not interest me because it will probably never have the type of content that I really care about, unlike rF2 or iRacing. I imagine others will like it though, and that is fine, as there can never be enough racing games to satisfy all different tastes.
o0thx11380o
Guys, we have "THE" formula Abarth, 20 meters under our offices several times every year. We use AC one to prepare newbies and to train veteran drivers. We had access to any kind of data that exist, and the telemetry (at vallelunga, same track) says that our DOES it on the same way: second gear, full throttle, no dangers, full grip...
Laptimes are difficult to compare. Before driving the real one, Instructors brainwash drivers on how much does cost to even scratch one, how much to bend a suspension arm ecc ecc
But you don't know how many times we could literally overlap telemetries...
You have to live with it.
You found it! Thanks.