F2Chump
These pcars sponsors are making fools of themselves, I put the gripfest FB into the top 10 at Bathurst within a handful of laps, and looking at the times, could probably get p3-4, but outside the top 10, the times really start to suck, yet the FB is easy as pie to drive.
Every time a new build comes out, some pcars numpty suggest we try this or that, but I've been trying for months and months, and it's just simcade......admittedly, it's a good simcade, just as Dirt2/3 are good simcades, but don't expect proper sim racers to ever rate pcars as a sim unless the NTM brings radical changes.
Every time a new build comes out, some pcars numpty suggest we try this or that, but I've been trying for months and months, and it's just simcade......admittedly, it's a good simcade, just as Dirt2/3 are good simcades, but don't expect proper sim racers to ever rate pcars as a sim unless the NTM brings radical changes.
F2Chump
Last night I was tempted with GSC 2012 after reading so much enthusiasm about the title but watched some you tube videos instead, then jumped back into rf2I may purchase it one impulsive (read drunken) night but think once I hear rave reviews about the Mini's then it will be downloading pretty sharpish.
.
Given how long they're taking, the Mini should be of the same high standard as the camaro, which IMO is the no1 tintop sim car.
GSC is quality over quantity, but never before have I cared about the impending release of such a slow car.
feels3
F2Chump
It's called buzz marketing
We must be careful, they are everywhere
They've been neutralized at RDepartment.
FONismo
This is a good point about rF2 and proper sims in general. There is this misconception IMO of people that are deemed hardcore when it comes to sims. People that dislike stuff like pCARS like myself are instantly thought to like sims that are like ice skating. For me that is so far from the truth it's unbelievable. I like a convincing feel that to get the best from does require practise and dedication.
Take the recent Camaro in GSC2012. Now at first it can seem a little bewildering but can be driven pretty well quickly. A car like that in my mind though is designed for fun and going sideways. So when you start throwing the car around for the first say hour you will constantly bin it when trying to drift but sticking at it and not giving up like alot do rewards you with a brilliant sim car that can be held sideways on corner exit forever.
The same applys with rF2, all the cars you need to spend time with to really get the most rewarding drive from and find the limits. This is what i didn't like about pCARS, it never convinced me, it was too easy just to go out and blast times. I'm not saying it should be hard but put a real race driver in a car he is not used to racing and he will have the basic understanding of how it will work and react to input. But for him to get the best and find the limits of that said car he will have to dedicate practise time. Sims should be the same and all the best sims are the same. There should be a learning curve that does punish you and then if you stick with rewards you.
I keep reading threads comparing to NetKar, i have kept out of them as quite frankly it's a pointless argument. NKP is a finished product and also it does not have Real Road and green and rubbered tracks. This alone makes a huge difference. I can rag the nuts of most cars in rF2, the modern F1 is pretty easy, i don't get all the moaning tbh.
DrR1pper
Lol, no offence but by "people" you just mean yourself here.
buddhatree
A little background...
On August 10, Max tried pCARS for the very first time and wrote that it is:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296119
OK Max, we get that you love pCARS, but to call people liars because they don't agree is going a little far imo
On August 10, Max tried pCARS for the very first time and wrote that it is:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296119
OK Max, we get that you love pCARS, but to call people liars because they don't agree is going a little far imo
Cleverleyson
Step away lads........
to be fair i only played it with a joypad....was good fun....
Anyway back on track....the only problem with Iracing is the whole 12 quid a track + how many for a car...then find out no-one uses that car...Its all oval with Iracing it seems. The mx5 is always there but man waiting for a race to start can be ass, A whole hour.
But the one thing i like about Iracing is the radio, The whole Left side, still left, Clear helps a million. We should steal that....it would help with the races online in public.
I found out about rfactor 1 late and man i loved it. all those tracks and mods I came in the right time.
Rfactor 2 will be the same...some of the mod tracks are amazing. Its just a shame there isn't much choice atm. But things will come to those who wait.
PCars....well...its all gfx isn't it... I was bored after a few laps. the wheel just didn't do anything....
Rfactor will shine......Pit boards would make me happy, no sim has had those i think
GTR3 is awfully hush atm too. its the ones that are not shouting that you have to look out for. their last screenshot was in 2011.
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FONismo
Oh dear i have not been on NG for a long time but see they are still closing threads as soon as people start questioning the game but leave these to run.A little background...
On August 10, Max tried pCARS for the very first time and wrote that it is:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296119
OK Max, we get that you love pCARS, but to call people liars because they don't agree is going a little far imo
Best line of a post i could be bothered to finish reading.
He was asked who made him invest into pCARS
"Redi had some good things to say about pcars and there no reason why I shouldn't trust his judgement. He seems hardcore."
LOL Redi the guy that claimed SHIFT2 was realistic and defended it to death and is also an employee of SMS.
Anyway after thinking about it and after reading that drivel. This thread seems pointless really. The OP is only gonna get people that like rF2 replying and claiming it to be the superiour sim here on a ISI forum. You would be better asking on a non ISI or SMS owned forum so something like Racedepartment ( Most honest community out there ) for a more measured response. VirtualR, NoGrip and WMD all have connections to SMS and here obnviously the connection is with ISI
Jameswesty
I find Pcars WAY WAY WAY harder to drive then RF2
Sure its more easy to do laps in general in Pcars than it is RF2 but that's not a hard skill to have with any driving game when you know how to drive in general.
The issue is when you get on the edge of the tires Pcars has simular issues as RF2 but only 100X worse and fact is Pcars tires are not even realistic before they lose grip , and ontop of that the cars physics just dont make sense from a real car piont of view with this weird under steer lock in happening all the time.
Thats what's funny with allot of these arcade games same with dirt , F1 2011 , when you get to the limmit of the tires you hit a brick wall where the car is no longer stable at all and turns to mush.
I guess the lesson is that most people don't ever drive the car to that degree most users are happy to do 3 laps without crashing , they have not evan got to the piont of knowing the racing line or thinking about waghting the car through the corners to line up the angle of the next corner , or taking less slip angle through a corner to conserve tires.
I think one of the reasons RBR tanked in sales was because the game relied 100% on feel and a driver having that awareness of the physics and car movement , many people it seems simply don't have that so as a result most games don't design for that.
SMS say they are working on new physics and the current physics are designed to run on a 360 and ps3 where as new physics would be to demanding. so we will have to hold on and see where it goes.
Gearjammer
Seriously? I happen to know that Bram is very watchful of the content of his site and anything that he doesn't agree with is altered or removed. But this has nothing to do with this topic.
As I said in another thread, with all the current sims that are in the works, I hope we get a few as that will lead to better sims and more options which should get us even more sims due to competition. Judging which is better when neither are released yet is futile as we don't know the final direction that will be taken from any of the creators until the sim goes gold.
FONismo
That is not what i meant. Re-read my post. RD was used as an example of a place that is not influenced by SMS or ISI or any other studio for that matter, they are totally independent. Bram is a great guy and does not censor the site. He will close threads if they get personal but everybody is free of an opinion on sims. RacesimCentral i'm sure has ties with SimRaceWay or Simbin, i forget now but RD is 100% independent. The community aswell is what i said, not Bram.
Magus
I partly understand & agree with what you are saying & doubted myself so went & run some times using the Rookie, Caterham 300, Racer L4/V8, BAC, Formula B, Lotus 78 & 98T & Arial Atom all around Bathurst. I completely disagree when you say pCARS is harder. Out of all those cars I found the grip to be far too much on most. Time I think 'oh I've lost it' & actually I may have gone through faster. Don't get me wrong; it can be fun, but not challenging to keep the car under control at full or near full turning speed.
I completely agree with you that it is hard to judge what the tires/physics is going to do but on the whole it seems to compromise by giving you more grip in places where you really should have spun. You get no feeling of weight transfer, so for example with the trainer at croft going through the fast S, you really feel that & if the car isn't aligned you either need take foot of the gas & brake or you will be going wide & messing yourself up for the next corner or you spin out (again tire wear & track rubbering also count). Taking the Rookie down Bathurst, none of that really matters, you feel none of the weight transfer on the car really means anything (I've not fiddled with its shocks to see if that sensation come in), I would imagine the series of s curves going downhill would be a real challenge but its not.
I'll have to disagree with your statement that they are 'WAY WAY WAY harder to drive'. Correct when saying, Less realistic & therefore less predictable but no way harder as some the grip levels are way too much.
Gearjammer
As I can't send you a pm so that we don't clog up this thread with our beliefs about other sites and their owners I will drop it here.
Suffice it to say they are not the only site out there that is honest and not biased and some are more so than RD.
Suffice it to say they are not the only site out there that is honest and not biased and some are more so than RD.
Max Attack
They did lie.A little background...
On August 10, Max tried pCARS for the very first time and wrote that it is:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296119
OK Max, we get that you love pCARS, but to call people liars because they don't agree is going a little far imo
rss334
Wow , I guess everyone is right in what they believe and everyone else is wrong Some heated discussions here but I guess that's kinda what I expected too. It was good reading, I learned a lot I did not already know, how much of it is true I'm still not sure. Can anyone answer my questions on the first page first post at the bottom?
Some heated discussions here but I guess that's kinda what I expected too. It was good reading, I learned a lot I did not already know, how much of it is true I'm still not sure. Can anyone answer my questions on the first page first post at the bottom?Gearjammer
Not sure about most of those questions, but I expect that like rF1, rF2 will have a community that wants to create mods to bring in tracks and cars. The quality will depend on the team creating them as it was in rF1. I would hope once the sim goes gold that the modders will be happy with what they see and want to create stunning mods for this sim. Only time will tell for sure.
DrR1pper
Guys, apart from rf1 pro that's used by the red bull racing f1 team, is there any other company that has produced commercial simulators with spin-offs for use by real world drivers?
The reason I ask is all this talk is inevitable inconsequential when we talk about what we "feel" is more realistic, well, at least is the case for me. Even though my opinion is that pCars feels unrealistic driving it's vehicle selection, I have never driven any of it's cars to back up my "feelings" with my very own factual experiences.
The only thing I think I can truly count on is the companies reputation in its previous and ongoing projects with the real-world of racing. That's not to say there are no underdogs, but if two products that feel to me so dissimilar, ofc only one can surely be the most accurate/correct in the context of emulating/encapsulating realistic physics. Now perhaps it's a case of confirmation bias (I'll let you decide) that my "feelings" towards the realism of rf2 is met by ISI's reputation in the real world of racing. I do not know of anything that can match this fact alone when it comes to the SMS team but please let me know if there is. It's a sincere question.
The reason I ask is all this talk is inevitable inconsequential when we talk about what we "feel" is more realistic, well, at least is the case for me. Even though my opinion is that pCars feels unrealistic driving it's vehicle selection, I have never driven any of it's cars to back up my "feelings" with my very own factual experiences.
The only thing I think I can truly count on is the companies reputation in its previous and ongoing projects with the real-world of racing. That's not to say there are no underdogs, but if two products that feel to me so dissimilar, ofc only one can surely be the most accurate/correct in the context of emulating/encapsulating realistic physics. Now perhaps it's a case of confirmation bias (I'll let you decide) that my "feelings" towards the realism of rf2 is met by ISI's reputation in the real world of racing. I do not know of anything that can match this fact alone when it comes to the SMS team but please let me know if there is. It's a sincere question.
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F2Chump
Do you own a car?.....most sims remind me of all sorts of cars, but pcars reminds me of a marshmellow in comparison, granted it's better lately, but it feels like it's centre mounted to the road vs rf2/sims feeling like there's 4 contact points representing each wheel.
Cars like rf2 F2, Simbin C6R, RaceON US muscle Camaro, GSC 2012 Camaro, V8SC, F1 modern etc all feel like you're driving a car.
Obviously it'd be nice to be able to drive a V8SC and compare it, but you can look at vids and see that in general terms it's doing the right thing, and being that genuine sims have more feel and better FFB, it should be obvious that digital spongey games like pcars lack the fidelity that distinguishes a sim from simcade.
Max Attack
Did you like the physics in GTL? GTR?
F2Chump
I own a boxed copy of GTR, but it didn't want to run on my W7 box, as for GTL, I have them as a mod, and whilst ok, are inferior to the best cars in later Simbin products like Evo/Raceon.
1959nikos
DrR1pper
No...and all the more reason my "feelings" have no factual experience to back them up. Yet I cannot help but agree that rf2 feels more realistic based purely on my comparison of the two physics engines.
I wonder how well a good ffb correlates with higher fidelity physics engine/model.
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Mulero
cloudXXI
I guess you have the 6 free month suscription of Iracing. So my advise is that you enjoy Iracing for that time, then rfactor2 will be gold, maybe Assetto Corsa is ready and pcars will be in a more advanced state.
Johannes Rojola
I have had all three games, so some few words of them:
iRacing
I like this simulation best graphics wise, it just looks right and balanced. The physics and FFB is likeable but nothing very special. I can still feel the good old NR2003 behind everything. In good and bad. Car and track options are mainly very boring, nothing of which you really want to pay 10 dollars worth. My driving with this sim ended when I was in situation of having to buy new cars and tracks to proceed on the competition ladder. It would be nice if you could actually test/try (in private testing) out different cars and tracks before making a purchase. I don't want to buy something that I am not sure if I like to drive that thing. Other major problem with this are other competitors, who are mostly annoying american pre-teens. Sometimes it felt like I was playing Modern Warfare 3 on XBox Live. I am done with this, it is a shame.
pCARS
Don't really know what happened but I was tricked on buying the team members status. This has to be the most depressing game purchase of my life time. Sure, I was interested about the open development scheme of this title but soon I played the title I experienced how bad game it is. There is no joy of following the development anymore. The driving physics are horrible, I mean the driving feels worse and less fun than in Speed Haste. And that is truly a bad racing game. If pCARS is meant to be arcade, it is not a fun game. If it is meant to be simulation, it has no relation to reality whatsoever. The graphics really aren't that special, they look similar any mediocre next gen title. I don't ever want to touch this anymore.
rFactor2
Well this is harder to comment at, when obviously it is very very unfinished and unpolished. The FFB feels very nice when it is not literally killing my G27. Physics wise I am not so sure about, it always feels that something is off. I can't but my finger on it but nothing really feels perfectly right. Graphics are... there are problems. Massive loss of performance without of much visual candy. Somebody tested a box car in a plane track and got massive amount of fps's, so physics calculation cannot be used as an excuse for utterly bad performance. I am mainly a modder and rF2 continues to offer great modding platform like rF1 did. Guess that is what keeps me on this bandwagon. But I look at the future where oddball mods (like Reliant Robins) are released for this game. That is what I truly like, something what iRacing and pCARS can never offer.
iRacing
I like this simulation best graphics wise, it just looks right and balanced. The physics and FFB is likeable but nothing very special. I can still feel the good old NR2003 behind everything. In good and bad. Car and track options are mainly very boring, nothing of which you really want to pay 10 dollars worth. My driving with this sim ended when I was in situation of having to buy new cars and tracks to proceed on the competition ladder. It would be nice if you could actually test/try (in private testing) out different cars and tracks before making a purchase. I don't want to buy something that I am not sure if I like to drive that thing. Other major problem with this are other competitors, who are mostly annoying american pre-teens. Sometimes it felt like I was playing Modern Warfare 3 on XBox Live. I am done with this, it is a shame.
pCARS
Don't really know what happened but I was tricked on buying the team members status. This has to be the most depressing game purchase of my life time. Sure, I was interested about the open development scheme of this title but soon I played the title I experienced how bad game it is. There is no joy of following the development anymore. The driving physics are horrible, I mean the driving feels worse and less fun than in Speed Haste. And that is truly a bad racing game. If pCARS is meant to be arcade, it is not a fun game. If it is meant to be simulation, it has no relation to reality whatsoever. The graphics really aren't that special, they look similar any mediocre next gen title. I don't ever want to touch this anymore.
rFactor2
Well this is harder to comment at, when obviously it is very very unfinished and unpolished. The FFB feels very nice when it is not literally killing my G27. Physics wise I am not so sure about, it always feels that something is off. I can't but my finger on it but nothing really feels perfectly right. Graphics are... there are problems. Massive loss of performance without of much visual candy. Somebody tested a box car in a plane track and got massive amount of fps's, so physics calculation cannot be used as an excuse for utterly bad performance. I am mainly a modder and rF2 continues to offer great modding platform like rF1 did. Guess that is what keeps me on this bandwagon. But I look at the future where oddball mods (like Reliant Robins) are released for this game. That is what I truly like, something what iRacing and pCARS can never offer.
kjay
Considering the state of rFactor 2 I really don't understand your position on pCars. They are both unfinished products that have a long way to go before they are released.
Ryno917
It's about trajectory. rF2 has shown where it is heading, physics-wise. All pCARS has delivered in his view is content. Advances in the physics department have been almost non-existant. Honestly, I feel the same way with it; I am completely unimpressed with pCARS right now, and I have less and less hope that the final will be better because of the lack of improvement in the physics department. I also can't for the life of me get my wheel to work nicely in it; I always wind up with way too much turn-in with small inputs on the steering wheel - Something I've often found in games designed to work on a gamepad. I hope it will improve, though, as I've already paid for it and there is some very enticing content coming for it.
I should note, though, that I haven't driven in it in months now, so maybe it's come a long way, but somehow I doubt it. After driving the F2s in rF2, though, I don't want to drive anything else. Everything else is just a let-down, now.
SLuisHamilton
people are forgetting Asseto Corsa.
I think Assetto Corsa is doing great job about graphics. Didn´t read about phisics and FFB. But if they won´t miss this 2 most important features on racing sim game it will be an excellent alternative choice to rF2 to people interest in simulation.
To me the cons i have see to asseto corsa is:
1- few content - vehicles and tracks (and what they have doesn´t speed my heartbeat, except for Lotus stuff and laser scanning tracks)
2- Not mod friendly, wich means to me not play 80´s F1 and other historic stuff
Just a video wich doens´t mean a lot beacuse i don´t know in what kind of setup this is running, but interesting to see:
1959nikos
People are not forgetting asseto corsa. As a matter of fact, people are not forgetting anything. You havent driven asseto corsa, so you cannot say anything about it really. So, why dont dont you tell us about something you have actually experienced?
jtbo
What do you mean AC not being mod friendly?
I remember reading from their site that they intend to make it moddable, which is quite a turn as previously, during NkPro Kunos was pretty strongly against moddable approach. I think that he has learned how today without modding sim is like if something missing.
At their home page, at top there is text Moddable, when you click on it you can read that it will be moddable, maybe you have been disinformed or maybe you have suspicions about how they will implement modding in their product?
I think that is reason why it is very big competitor for rF2, perhaps main competitor of them all?
I remember reading from their site that they intend to make it moddable, which is quite a turn as previously, during NkPro Kunos was pretty strongly against moddable approach. I think that he has learned how today without modding sim is like if something missing.
At their home page, at top there is text Moddable, when you click on it you can read that it will be moddable, maybe you have been disinformed or maybe you have suspicions about how they will implement modding in their product?
I think that is reason why it is very big competitor for rF2, perhaps main competitor of them all?
1959nikos
Huh?
SLuisHamilton
mYSELF said:
Most of people here didn´t play all 3 and have opinions and read about. Or do you think no one is able to talk about graphics and lasers scan tracks when comes to fidelity, since we are talking about simulation?
Stop being such a fanboy Nikos. You are better than that.
SLuisHamilton
answer=disinformed
Agree with you. If they will modder friendly rF2 has a serious copetition now.
but i can live with 2 sims in my PC.
1959nikos
Ive played 2. Pcars and rf2. Im frustrated about rf2s cockpits and shading, Im overwhealmed about rf2s driving, Im keeping Tim's explenations about rf2's progress, I havent driven nothing as realistic as rf2 since gpl and RBR, have you???
SLuisHamilton
yes
1959nikos
What?
buddhatree
LOL
SLuisHamilton
your mothers car ahahahahaah