peterchen
Exactly Noel.
speed1
Correct !Well we will just have to agree that we disagree on that then.
In rF2 the physics are directly connected to the force feedback so I wouldn't have the slightest clue of the car's behavior if I didn't have any forces coming through the wheel. I wouldn't be able to feel how close I am to the limit, how close the tires are to the limit of adhesion etc. Well yeah I would have some idea, but only AFTER going off the track.Here I'm not talking about obvious oversteer and understeer, I can tell by sounds and visual clues. No I mean all the subtleties that you have to be aware of if you want to be fast.
I am well aware that the force feedback doesn't change the physics one bit, but in my mind the two are still connected and determines how I drive the car. I am inexperienced still, compared to you anyway. But I'm still very fast so that way of thinking can't be completely bonkers I think.
If the forces tell me the opposite of what the car is doing I will drive badly. Or I will think to myself 'what an awful car, what on earth is going on here'.
If the ffb is a mess, the physuic is a mess as well, otherwise the transmitted forces to the steering would be perfect out of the box in standard, especially when it means rack forces grabed at the column.
Why is this ? Because the physic is a mess and transmitts forces out of controle to the steering column.
Real cars aren't forceless. So judging vehicle dynamics without resistors and forces in play is stupid.
The only driving simulator which isn't a mess is Reiza's atm.
Those guys are the number 1 in regards to clean balanced vehicle dynamics at the steering axle.
msportdan
should read this guys thread quite interesting,,,,,
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-overall-experience.105616/
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-overall-experience.105616/
yusupov
if i knew english like it was my first language, thats very close to something i might write
buddhatree
Anyone else feel guilty playing pCARS?
I do and I'm not kidding. For two reasons:
1. I'm learning bad sim driving habits with pCARS.
2. I feel like I'm "wasting" valuable time with toy cars.
After my last session with PC, I fired up rF2 and drove the Cobra.
How can you go back to PC after the Cobra?
I do and I'm not kidding. For two reasons:
1. I'm learning bad sim driving habits with pCARS.
2. I feel like I'm "wasting" valuable time with toy cars.
After my last session with PC, I fired up rF2 and drove the Cobra.
How can you go back to PC after the Cobra?
hexagramme
Because I don't really compare the two titles. I don't see them as directly comparable at all. One I race for unmatched physics, force feedback and realism. The other I race for fun. I love both titles for completely different reasons.
yusupov
i went from pcars to the palatov (trackday!) & had no problems whatsoever, used the same techniques i use in pcars if the car got a little squirrely on me.
posted above about i went from pcars to rf2 on same car + track, had an easier go in rf2 since id just driven it in pcars!
posted above about i went from pcars to rf2 on same car + track, had an easier go in rf2 since id just driven it in pcars!
yusupov
anyway if you really feel its encouraging bad habits ( ihave felt that too, but dont really see evidence of it when i look for it) i understand, but as far as it being a guilty pleasure or w/e, i dont get that at all tbh.
do agree theres nothing close to the cobra in pC (or any sim, tho maybe the 917/30 mod for AC)
do agree theres nothing close to the cobra in pC (or any sim, tho maybe the 917/30 mod for AC
)Spinelli
The staleness and simplification of the driving behaviour of the PCar's physics engine can much more easily be noticed in the rain. Fun? Yes! . Not arcade? I agree, not arcade at all! BUT, definitely "video-gamey"...I hate using the word, but I guess I have to say "simcade", absolutely.
. Not arcade? I agree, not arcade at all! BUT, definitely "video-gamey"...I hate using the word, but I guess I have to say "simcade", absolutely.Mibrandt
Feeling guilty by playing other games than RF2 - Hilarious
Satangoss
It's me or is impossible to pick what cars I want to race against in Pcars?
It gives me a stupid menu "same class", "same car" or "multiclass" and pick the cars by its own it's so lame.
It gives me a stupid menu "same class", "same car" or "multiclass" and pick the cars by its own it's so lame.
Narrowbackwing
Stupid ? Maybe , different yes - easy to navigate , yes for me , once your used to it ,it's no big deal .
I remember in rf2 people saying --- why can't we add mods the same way we done in rfactor1 , why complicate it --- now for most it's just soooo easy it's not even talked about .
anyway I hope this won't stop your enjoyment
.
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Denstjiro
AMD users having issues with PCars? or is it the same old same old.
wlaem
How's the solo "offline" ? Can you easily create championship ? Does the AI pits, changes tyres ect ...
i loved GTR 2 just for that, the ability to have great endurance racing against AI ,the possibility to save during races... does pcars match it ?
i loved GTR 2 just for that, the ability to have great endurance racing against AI ,the possibility to save during races... does pcars match it ?
WhiteShadow
1. I'm learning bad sim driving habits with pCARS. Yes, Capri and same class of cars is learning me bad habits when I can use heal&toe because of working drive train model
2. I feel like I'm "wasting" valuable time with toy cars. Yes it is wasted time when some of the cars behaves like ISI GTcars , URD etc.
How can you go back to PC after the Cobra? It is simple, Go to player.JASON edit, "Auto Blip":true, "Auto Lift":true, turn on auto clutch, go out on the track and flat shift.
Silly questions deserves, silly answer, get the clue?
bwana
Same old same old, no issues at all. Ultra almost everything . looks great .performs great.
I really wish they would stop all that carp but no doubt its like everything else on simforums.
speed1
Ahhh couldn't anybody eliminate this thread please, or move it to VR or WMD.
Man what this s....t has to do with ISI and the rf2 forum ?
The moderation is really cool. I already would have catapult you game lovers out of my room.
I'm starting tapatalk and what pops up on top is this silly thread, instead something i'm looking for has to do and is related to rf2.
I just can shake my head, really.
Man what this s....t has to do with ISI and the rf2 forum ?
The moderation is really cool. I already would have catapult you game lovers out of my room.
I'm starting tapatalk and what pops up on top is this silly thread, instead something i'm looking for has to do and is related to rf2.
I just can shake my head, really.
hexagramme
Yikes... if pCARS is "simcade" (I don't think it is) I'd hate to think what AC then qualifies as.
The spiritual successor to Mario Kart?
Sorry I'll stop now.
The spiritual successor to Mario Kart?
Sorry I'll stop now.
Marc Collins
OK, these settings are probably the best feel of anything I have tried, including the Jack Spade tweaks.
But really, you have to adjust and save them for every single car and track combination!?!?!?!?! There is no master default setting?? I thought rF2 had the worst user interface...
And secondly, there is something fundamentally wrong with the FFB--it disappears when you are not turning the wheel. For example, surface bumps are gone while you are driving perfectly straight and no turning of the wheel. As soon as you turn, even to weave on purpose a bit to test, suddenly it transitions from feeling like you are driving on glass to a road surface with imperfections and bumps. What am I doing wrong?
coops
So....who has PCars? Not me and not anytime soon after reading through the posts. Who has AC? me and not impressed with it either. Maybe i dont give them a chance but rf2 ***** on them both.
DurgeDriven
The spiritual successor to Mario Kart?
lmao
Fair point.
Go drive the 458 around Nords, that's pretty simcade.
edit:
I think most all here pretty much agree coops.
I just think as a 2nd sim pCars is a whole lot prettier then AC.
Cockpits, models, tracks look nicer to me, environment ambiance, night and wet racing.
Most realistic day and night headlights I seen so far any title.
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Satangoss
No... zero flexibility. GTR2 way better on it, as expected.
DurgeDriven
No custom championships, but neither does rF2 or AC do they, I mean sure I can make a mod with tracks right order but there are no points or charts is there.
Ai pit and stops length varies a little.
5 lap Career race they can stagger stops over 3/4 laps as well makes it interesting.
They apparently going to add manual pitstops.
If they do they would have to alter the crew and pits.
As is you run through other cars to fit in your box, I can't see how you would drive into one so tight.
You can saved multi strategies.
Career has strategy canned in races.
No fuel usage x sort of spoils too
I haven't done a long race yet so I don't know what Ai do in that regard.
No timed races but in career mode some races are timed so seems reasonable to me they may add it later.
Question is will they fix all these things and beef up the physics and feel for pCars2.
Ai pit and stops length varies a little.
5 lap Career race they can stagger stops over 3/4 laps as well makes it interesting.
They apparently going to add manual pitstops.
If they do they would have to alter the crew and pits.
As is you run through other cars to fit in your box, I can't see how you would drive into one so tight.
You can saved multi strategies.
Career has strategy canned in races.
No fuel usage x sort of spoils too
I haven't done a long race yet so I don't know what Ai do in that regard.
No timed races but in career mode some races are timed so seems reasonable to me they may add it later.
Question is will they fix all these things and beef up the physics and feel for pCars2.
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SimonV6
Got to laugh though, on the live for speed they reckon pcars is to much like rfactor2 and not very realistic, so I guess it's all down to the user's own idea of what feels right, I do loads of track days and can say that No sim made so far gives me the same feeling as doing it for real, so sell your pc and get a track bike/car and fully enjoy the real "sim" experience lol ;-)
mauserrifle
Not planning to buy. rFactor, AC and Dirt Rally seems to be enough for me Only if it was cross-platform multiplayer I would probably of bought it so I could race with friends that are console gamers. Too bad it isn't supported.
Does anyone know whether pcars produces log files from races like rFactor does?
Only if it was cross-platform multiplayer I would probably of bought it so I could race with friends that are console gamers. Too bad it isn't supported.Does anyone know whether pcars produces log files from races like rFactor does?
kiko0602
kindergarden...my daddy is stronger then yours,my toys are much better then yours,i play realistic games you dont,i listen better music then you,my city is nicer then yours,what i do and have is always better ALWAYS!!!and you must like what i do/have,if not, than thats wrong..
i realy dont understand the needs from some here to defend or attack product we like or dislike..do you get money for that?play what you think is best for you,thats why you have few games to chose..or pay someone to make a game for you
please stop to argue about product we have they are all good in they own ways..and devs are working in their own ways to make it best possible for us...again play what you think is best for you!! or you need someone to tell you what is best for you?
funny stuff
i realy dont understand the needs from some here to defend or attack product we like or dislike..do you get money for that?play what you think is best for you,thats why you have few games to chose..or pay someone to make a game for you
please stop to argue about product we have they are all good in they own ways..and devs are working in their own ways to make it best possible for us...again play what you think is best for you!! or you need someone to tell you what is best for you?
funny stuff
P.S.R.
Not planning to buy. rFactor, AC and Dirt Rally seems to be enough for me
Does anyone know whether pcars produces log files from races like rFactor does?
I asked this question recently and sadly the answer appears to be no. Although there are two telemetry applications that connect via API.
Woodee
kindergarden...my daddy is stronger then yours,my toys are much better then yours,i play realistic games you dont,i listen better music then you,my city is nicer then yours,what i do and have is always better ALWAYS!!!and you must like what i do/have,if not, than thats wrong..
i realy dont understand the needs from some here to defend or attack product we like or dislike..do you get money for that?play what you think is best for you,thats why you have few games to chose..or pay someone to make a game for you
please stop to argue about product we have they are all good in they own ways..and devs are working in their own ways to make it best possible for us...again play what you think is best for you!! or you need someone to tell you what is best for you?
funny stuff
This needs to be a sticky post ^^^
mauserrifle
Hmm bummer. Would prefer simple logs from devs. Oh well. This saves me some time by not writing another parser for simresults
But would of done if there were logs.P.S.R.
Hmm bummer. Would prefer simple logs from devs. Oh well. This saves me some time by not writing another parser for simresults
Yeah to be honest this was the last (of many) nail in the coffin for pCars for me...
Denstjiro
kindergarden...my daddy is stronger then yours,my toys are much better then yours,i play realistic games you dont,i listen better music then you,my city is nicer then yours,what i do and have is always better ALWAYS!!!and you must like what i do/have,if not, than thats wrong..
i realy dont understand the needs from some here to defend or attack product we like or dislike..do you get money for that?play what you think is best for you,thats why you have few games to chose..or pay someone to make a game for you
please stop to argue about product we have they are all good in they own ways..and devs are working in their own ways to make it best possible for us...again play what you think is best for you!! or you need someone to tell you what is best for you?
funny stuff
Apparently this is typical human behaviour, that's why you see it everywhere on all topics. The need to pick a side and stick by it comes from the need to belong somewhere, you are part of something, allegedly a very strong incentive for people. Because it helps us determine our identity.
The younger people are the stronger this feeling is as well I reckon.
And when you want to be part of something this 'something' needs to be 'right', it needs to be better then the something others favour. (because how can we be right if they are right as well?)
When this need to belong is high enough (it usually is) then we also have the need to discredit the other side. sometimes with facts (those are the glorious moments (that's why rf2 users will always say 'physics' even if allot of 'us' have no clue how to determine if they are actually good or not)) or just proclaim stuff that sounds reasonable or in most cases claim something others already have claimed before.
Because the more right we are, the more wrong they are.
Once we are down that road we also feel much more strongly about 'our' opinions and then the next feel comes into play: the reinforcement of our social bonds with the community. We need to belong, we get anxious about it, we need to prove we are right so we can underline the social bonding's. if we keep that up we get 'more right' then the others. or so we perceive it anyways.
It makes us feel secure and accepted. A very basic human incentive. something we all are looking for from the day we are born until we check out.
So it's not even about simracing. at all. it is about being humans.
We are all prone to error but the ability to acknowledge that is very difficult because our opinions also determine who we are and what we are. In a sense - especially for younger humans - it is impossible to not have opinions because that would mean we will not be able to determine who we are.
If you are wrong, you failed, better make sure you are right, even if you know you are wrong. Because the consequences of being wrong are pretty heavy in our minds. We are after all fragile beings being tossed around in a scary world. it feels so good to belong somewhere and damned if we don't defend our beliefs.
One of the most difficult things in life is not having an opinion.
You will probably only see this in the more wise of us, zenmasters maybe, those whom had extreme harsh live experiences, older people whom have been going through this crap for 60 years already, fed up with debating crap, knowing it doesn't mean anything. Knowing that accepting things as they are is actually much more rewarding, less time consuming and less confusing. It even gives us that feeling of belonging in a much stronger sense. (Oh the irony)
So, it just human nature. And if you don't like that, gotta find a way to avoid being influenced by it one way or another.
So yeah, I think i'll get PCars tomorrow, I feel like trying something new
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hexagramme
Ah, fantastic post. I wish more people had that kind of insight. Very refreshing, thank you.
Denstjiro
And thank you as well, your posts (and the way you interact here) made me wanna go for pcars.
(needless to say I will blame you if I don't like it)
(needless to say I will blame you if I don't like it)
P.S.R.
So you are just anti-belonging. It's much better to belong instead of a hermit like you! You guys are all the same.
Denstjiro
Where did I claim I did not suffer from the same? Am I not human? Are you denying my humanity?
P.S.R.
In all honesty, I believe the most dangerous thing about pCARS or any immersive game is that the concept of improvement is non-existent. People literally adjust the AI difficulty level down when they don't win instead of identifying all the opportunities for improvement. It's almost like humans complete separation from the source of the food they eat. Sad.
Noel Hibbard
Yikes... if pCARS is "simcade" (I don't think it is) I'd hate to think what AC then qualifies as.
The spiritual successor to Mario Kart?
Sorry I'll stop now.
AC was developed in an office above a pit lane... It can't be simcade. It's just impossible. Hehe.
Pilot37
Quite the opposite. I practice a bit, adjust the AI to put me somewhere near the back and race. If I ever get a win I didn't fight tooth and nail for I up the AI setting. What I want is a challenge....consistently winning would be no fun. In RFactor2 I find that I constantly improve. The down side of all this is that coming back to Rfactor1 after a year off I found my settings impossible (I do miss the 1979 MOD and starting out in a duff team) :-/ Worse still thanks to you lot I am getting dissatisfied with my G25 and wondering if my bread knife would spot it if I snuck in a T500RS plus F1 wheel (she doesn't approve at all
I think all games encourage improvement in some way?
Golanv
Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, Stock Car Extreme, RaceRoom Racing Experience, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally, DiRT Rally...
Excellent products, excellent simulators. Fact!
It is very easy to dismiss any opinion outside the forementioned premises as mere belongingness (what Denstjiro was describing), or rather more disturbing 'irrational hatred towards inanimate object' (cannot remmeber the name for this condition).
To quote Taylor Swift; Hater's gonna hate.
Excellent products, excellent simulators. Fact!
It is very easy to dismiss any opinion outside the forementioned premises as mere belongingness (what Denstjiro was describing), or rather more disturbing 'irrational hatred towards inanimate object' (cannot remmeber the name for this condition).
To quote Taylor Swift; Hater's gonna hate.
P.S.R.
Quite the opposite. I practice a bit, adjust the AI to put me somewhere near the back and race. If I ever get a win I didn't fight tooth and nail for I up the AI setting. What I want is a challenge....consistently winning would be no fun. In RFactor2 I find that I constantly improve. The down side of all this is that coming back to Rfactor1 after a year off I found my settings impossible (I do miss the 1979 MOD and starting out in a duff team) :-/ Worse still thanks to you lot I am getting dissatisfied with my G25 and wondering if my bread knife would spot it if I snuck in a T500RS plus F1 wheel (she doesn't approve at all
I think all games encourage improvement in some way?
Yeah, but once you win after fighting tooth and nail do you increase AI strength again? The issue is not CHALLENGE but IMPROVEMENT. How can you adjust AI so you are at the back and then win? What you need to do is set the AI so that you are at the back and stay near the back and then only move toward the front over time. And then up the AI% again to send you TRULY toward the back.
And, no. No game encourages improvement that allows decreasing AI strength and, worse, motivates dysfunctional behavior like quitting a combo way before you reach your potential just because you can now buy a car or do the next arbitrary championship or whatever. Games like this run EXACTLY counter to meeting your potential, which is the only thing that should stop the search for improvement and since you never reach your potential then that will never happen so there is never a reason to stop improving.